Date/Time overlay - Camera, or Blue Iris, or both?
- Thread starter Shark92651
- Start date
I use blue iris exclusively. For a couple of reasons. First most of the clocks that come with cameras require some type of internet access to synchronize, and I have all of my cameras on a subnet that has no internet access to prevent them from phoning home.
Also, most of the date stamps from the camera toggle between white and black depending on the contrast and brightness of the subject behind the clock. I find that to be quite distracting, bordering on unreadable.
And, a few seconds difference in the display timestamp between cameras may not seem like much, but when you're dealing with reviewing split-second things like lightning strikes or sounds, it's nice to have everything precisely matched.
Finally, having a uniform font and a semi transparent background behind the timestamp looks quite a bit more professional and consistent than varying fonts and sizes that you get between different cameras.
Also, most of the date stamps from the camera toggle between white and black depending on the contrast and brightness of the subject behind the clock. I find that to be quite distracting, bordering on unreadable.
And, a few seconds difference in the display timestamp between cameras may not seem like much, but when you're dealing with reviewing split-second things like lightning strikes or sounds, it's nice to have everything precisely matched.
Finally, having a uniform font and a semi transparent background behind the timestamp looks quite a bit more professional and consistent than varying fonts and sizes that you get between different cameras.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
The general opinion around IPCT seems to be that using the camera date/time stamp is the way to go. This reduces CPU utilization for the BI server, noticeably. To do this it is best to set up a local time server on the BI server that can be accessed by the cameras without them needing internet access. I'm using "Nettime" and it works quite well without loading the CPU like using the BI overlay does. It does require opening port 123 on the camera subnet and allowing port 123 through Windoohs firewall and/or your security software though.
Hmmm... That's an interesting solution to the time synchronization problem after neutering the cameras' ability to reach the web.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Use the cameras time stamp and this: NetTime - Network Time Synchronization Tool
Read the instructions on that page.
Read the instructions on that page.
From an evidentiary standpoint in our jurisdiction it is best to have the camera overlay the time. This way the video is not “tampered” or “altered”.
IAmATeaf
Known around here
I have the date/time stamp set in the cam else if you enable overlays in BI it can’t do direct to disk recording from what I’ve read.
Like others here I’ve also got NetTime running on my BI box and have set the cams to use it as a time source.
Like others here I’ve also got NetTime running on my BI box and have set the cams to use it as a time source.
I do this as well. I also use BI Tools to place temp and humidity on the video, more for info if someone remote is watching. Utilization is not a problem for me with only four cameras right now.
You don't need third party NTP software; Windows Time service has a server built in, you just need to enable it and then open the firewall port for NTP.
At times I was pointing the cameras at my Cisco switches to sync time, now I have them syncing from the BI box, which syncs to a DC, which syncs to an NTP pool.
Anyway, as for the overlays, have the camera do that work.
At times I was pointing the cameras at my Cisco switches to sync time, now I have them syncing from the BI box, which syncs to a DC, which syncs to an NTP pool.
Anyway, as for the overlays, have the camera do that work.
Shark92651
Getting the hang of it
I can't seem to get this to work. I followed the directions in that link you sent, the Windows Time service is running on my BI server, it is enabled, I allow both incoming and outgoing UDP port 123 in the firewall, and I set the NTP settings of my camera at the IP address of the BI server, yet it never updates the time. In my case my cameras are all 1 hour behind my server and network time. I also tried pointing the camera at my Windows Domain Controller which also has the Windows Time server running on it, but still never updates. Any ideas?
sebastiantombs
Known around here
Check the daylight savings time settings for the cameras.
Shark92651
Getting the hang of it
I think that was the last remaining issue, thanks. Now I just have 50 more cameras to log into and tweak time settings on...
Notwithstanding the DST settings, are they successfully picking up NTP from your server?
Shark92651
Getting the hang of it
Yes everything is working fine now. I just enabled the Windows Time NTP server on my BI server, which is Window 10 and on my Windows domain.
This is a pretty old thread but does this still apply today, i.e. not use BI to embed the time but instead use some local time provider that the camera can access? If you use the windows integrated time service, are you just using 127.0.0.1 for the URL and port 123?
Yes it still applies today. Best to host your own NTP.
When you export video, if you are having BI add the time, you are re-encoding the video, and that is inefficient and takes more storage than not re-encoding and depending on the size of the export, could take a long time.
The biggest reason not to use the BI overlay though is that the attorney and law enforcement members here have said that having BI add the overlay constitutes a manipulation/modification/altering of the video after the fact and in a lawsuit, a good defense lawyer would claim the video has been altered to try to get it dismissed in court.
The reason being you could overlay any time you want on it after the fact.
Sure a camera could have the wrong date and time too, but that cannot be altered after the fact.
It would suck to have great video of a crime and have it tossed on a technicality.
When you export video, if you are having BI add the time, you are re-encoding the video, and that is inefficient and takes more storage than not re-encoding and depending on the size of the export, could take a long time.
The biggest reason not to use the BI overlay though is that the attorney and law enforcement members here have said that having BI add the overlay constitutes a manipulation/modification/altering of the video after the fact and in a lawsuit, a good defense lawyer would claim the video has been altered to try to get it dismissed in court.
The reason being you could overlay any time you want on it after the fact.
Sure a camera could have the wrong date and time too, but that cannot be altered after the fact.
It would suck to have great video of a crime and have it tossed on a technicality.
I remember the argument about a video holding up in court (or not) depending on if the cam or BI added it. I also thought that with direct-to-disc there isn't much re-encoding if you just add the date. But I might be wrong about hat. I will look into the Windows integrated NTP again as I prefer not having another program/service running.
I am also in the camp that lets BI apply the timestamp. As I understand direct-to-disk and the BVR format, there isn't a re-encoding being done anymore.
My initial reasoning for doing that was I found the in camera fonts to be ugly, a pain to synchronize, a pain to configure to look similar (especially across different brands), etc.
But the biggest reason apart from aesthetics and setup hassles was I found the in-camera fonts can sometimes mess with AI processing, such as when objects are where the timestamps and other labels would be. With BI in charge of timestamps, the clean image is sent to AI.
I get the "won't hold up in court" argument which is the one that worries me the most. But in a sense, cameras are already manipulating the actual image with backlighting, 2d/3d noise reduction, etc. If a defendant wants to argue that video of them brandishing a gun is just an artifact of the camera re-using pixels from prior frames where a "shadow" of their motion caused it to look like a gun, I guess they could anyway. As someone else mentioned, if the time overlay from the camera is wrong, is that going to lead to someone arguing, "see that doesn't count because it shows me shooting the victim at 2:32pm and I really shot him at 1:32pm."
arecon
n3wb
Does an onscreen timestamp overlay reflect the date/time contained in the video file metadata as captured by the IP camera, independent of your NVR?
I'd like to peek into the metadata and see what that looks like, if anyone here has that knowledge I'd love to know. I am looking into this from an evidentiary standpoint. Sometimes my timecode varies in tempo and I want to know why. If I look at the metadata maybe I'd see rounding errors or something
I'd like to peek into the metadata and see what that looks like, if anyone here has that knowledge I'd love to know. I am looking into this from an evidentiary standpoint. Sometimes my timecode varies in tempo and I want to know why. If I look at the metadata maybe I'd see rounding errors or something