Day/Night mode best practice?

[BORIStheBLADE]

I have started to play with picture and exposure settings on a new camera and looking to see what others are doing for day and night profiles. I noticed in the profile manager there is a schedule where I can pick a time range and a Day/Night option. My first question is with the Day/Night setting what dictates the camera switching profiles? In the past I have used a schedule but looking at other options to avoid sunset time variations.

Camera is IPC-T5442T-ZEB

 

[wittaj]

If you want to use the day/night profiles where you have different settings for things like exposure, etc., here are your options:

1. Manually go in every day and change it.
2. Use the schedule in profile manager, but will require you to go in every couple months and adjust it based on different sunrise/sunset options.
3. Connect it to a home automation system that can run a script to change its profile
4. Use this utility that most of us use:

Dahua day/night switch utility - DahuaSunriseSunset

I wanted to use stronger noise reduction at night and weaker during the day, but Dahua seems to have made a mess of the profile management. On most cameras, there doesn't seem to be a way to have the camera switch automatically between Day and Night profiles when the camera changes between...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Steve.L]

@wittaj,


Can the Dahua profile manager be used to switch between day settings and FORCED COLOR night settings? Or can it only be used to force the switching time between day settings and IR night?

As you know, there are many, MANY discussions about this already floating about IPCT, and in all of those discussions, I don't think I've ever seen that SPECIFIC nuanced question ever answered. And the reason I ask is, I've tried numerous times to set up that Dahua feature, only to find that there's apparently no way to tell the camera that, when in SCHEDULE mode, THESE ARE THE SETTINGS I WANT APPLIED DURING "DAY" HOURS, AND THESE ARE THE SETTINGS I WANT TO USE FOR (FORCED COLOR) DURING "NIGHT" HOURS (on the gray/yellow bar where times of day are set). Perhaps I'm just missing it.

As always, thanks for your insight.

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

If you want to use the day/night profiles where you have different settings for things like exposure, etc., here are your options:

1. Manually go in every day and change it.
2. Use the schedule in profile manager, but will require you to go in every couple months and adjust it based on different sunrise/sunset options.
3. Connect it to a home automation system that can run a script to change its profile
4. Use this utility that most of us use:

Dahua day/night switch utility - DahuaSunriseSunset

I wanted to use stronger noise reduction at night and weaker during the day, but Dahua seems to have made a mess of the profile management. On most cameras, there doesn't seem to be a way to have the camera switch automatically between Day and Night profiles when the camera changes between...

ipcamtalk.com

I think in the meantime I will just use the schedule option.

I have home automation and have been looking for a decent outdoor Lux sensor to use for outdoor lighting control and this might be something I can use for cameras later.

Thanks!

 

[sebastiantombs]

If you find that LUX sensor and are using Homeseer let me know which one you're using. The Day/Night utility is good, but a LUX triggered event would be so much better.

 

[wittaj]

@wittaj,


Can the Dahua profile manager be used to switch between day settings and FORCED COLOR night settings? Or can it only be used to force the switching time between day settings and IR night?

As you know, there are many, MANY discussions about this already floating about IPCT, and in all of those discussions, I don't think I've ever seen that SPECIFIC nuanced question ever answered. And the reason I ask is, I've tried numerous times to set up that Dahua feature, only to find that there's apparently no way to tell the camera that, when in SCHEDULE mode, THESE ARE THE SETTINGS I WANT APPLIED DURING "DAY" HOURS, AND THESE ARE THE SETTINGS I WANT TO USE FOR (FORCED COLOR) DURING "NIGHT" HOURS (on the gray/yellow bar where times of day are set). Perhaps I'm just missing it.

As always, thanks for your insight.

If you have different parameter settings for day and night, but you want forced color at night, then go here and tell it color and it will force it to color at night:



Or if you parameters are the same for day and night, but you want forced color, then just use color instead of auto.

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

If you find that LUX sensor and are using Homeseer let me know which one you're using. The Day/Night utility is good, but a LUX triggered event would be so much better.

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[Steve.L]

If you have different parameter settings for day and night, but you want forced color at night, then go here and tell it color and it will force it to color at night:

Or if you parameters are the same for day and night, but you want forced color, then just use color instead of auto.

Thanks. Yes, that part's easy, but the problem remains... When I go into Profile Management and select "Schedule," then set day/night times on the gray/orange slider bar, then go back to the Conditions Tab > Day & Night > Profile, the only options in the pulldown are Normal, or Day, or Night...the profile "SCHEDULE" does not exist, thus, there appears to be no way to set up two completely different sets of parameters for Day and Night settings, then have the Schedule Profile respect those different sets of parameters and switch back-and-forth between them based on the gray/orange slider bar. That's the crux. Again, unless I'm missing something.

What I want is forced color at Night, with say 1/120 shutter, then come around dawn the next day, have it switch to Day with, say 1/2000 shutter. Otherwise it stays on Night and the scene is washed out in light.

 

[wittaj]

Sounds like you are overthinking it?

The orange is the DAY profile, and the grey is the NIGHT. The Day/Night option doesn't do what you think.

So you set up the orange for the time you want the DAY profile and the grey for the time you want the NIGHT profile (your 1/120 shutter)



Then you go to this screen:



And set up your parameters for DAY and for NIGHT (1/120 shutter). Then the schedule will switch between the DAY profile and the NIGHT profile based on the times of the orange and grey in the Schedule.

 

[Steve.L]

Yes, I think I think too hard!

That'll be awesome if it works that way, I'll try it. Maybe where I've been going wrong is that "Picture" tab you're showing above...I've been going 4 bullets down to the Day & Night tab and mucking things up in there.

So you're saying under Picture > Day, I can set what I want for Day, then staying right there on the same tab, Picture > Night, set what I want for Night, and then the orange/gray slider will respect those and switch them? I'll work on that later after I finish hanging this other Z12E.

Thanks for sticking with me!

 

[wittaj]

Yes, that is exactly what it will do!

I did that for awhile until I got too many cameras and then went to that utility LOL.

 

[Steve.L]

Yes! If I'm not mistaken, @bp2008 doesn't even use that utility anymore, right? Didn't he write some scripts that work with the BI profile manager? Or does he use a combination thereof?

 

[samplenhold]

I use the Day/Night utility on most of my cams. While I have 21 Dahua cams I have dialed each one in separately and the utility makes that work out just fine.

 

[Justin Blackburn]

I don’t use a photocell or a lux sensor, but in node red their is a node called bigtimer. I use it to turn on and off my outside lights. I adjusted the offset on it until I got my lights turning on about 5 minutes before my cameras swapped to B/W. Now I also use the same timer to swap camera profiles and it works great for me. It adjust itself daily based on sunset time with appropriate offset.

 

[Cameraguy]

I see blue iris knows the time of sun rise and set in it's log. Isn't there a way to have blue iris adjust day and night setting of the camera using a command in the schedule. I see there are shutter adjustments. Maybe ken could add day and night option?

 

[wittaj]

I see blue iris knows the time of sun rise and set in it's log. Isn't there a way to have blue iris adjust day and night setting of the camera using a command in the schedule. I see there are shutter adjustments. Maybe ken could add day and night option?

Yes there is - look for the part that says Alternative using Blue Iris on first post:

Dahua day/night switch utility - DahuaSunriseSunset

I wanted to use stronger noise reduction at night and weaker during the day, but Dahua seems to have made a mess of the profile management. On most cameras, there doesn't seem to be a way to have the camera switch automatically between Day and Night profiles when the camera changes between...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Cameraguy]

Yes there is - look for the part that says Alternative using Blue Iris on first post:

Dahua day/night switch utility - DahuaSunriseSunset

I wanted to use stronger noise reduction at night and weaker during the day, but Dahua seems to have made a mess of the profile management. On most cameras, there doesn't seem to be a way to have the camera switch automatically between Day and Night profiles when the camera changes between...

ipcamtalk.com

Awesome thanks

 

[DanDenver]

If you find that LUX sensor and are using Homeseer let me know which one you're using. The Day/Night utility is good, but a LUX triggered event would be so much better.

You may have solved this already, but if not, I am using HomeSeer (H4) with this LUX meter now for about a year. So far it has been reliable. The first battery made it about 9 months.

I have it set up using the three profiles on my Dahua cameras (5442, etc). So there are day/night profiles but also a dawn/dusk profile (so 3 profiles total on my Dahua cameras).

Without the LUX meter I always found the switch to night/day to be so dramatic. Meaning when the camera flips from day to night via a schedule the image was to dark. And when I flipped from night to day via a schedule, the image was very washed out. But I run the fastest shutter speed I can which contributes heavily to this problem.

That is why the LUX meter is such a win if you run with really fast shutter speeds. With three profiles (day/night/general) I can rotate through those seamlessly throughout the day and night - and always have crisp images.

The thing about the day/night paradigm, if a heavy storm came along (snow/rain) during the day, the image would get too dark to be useful - because it was stuck in the day profile until a specific time in the evening. Now with the LUX meter it sees that it is getting dark and adjusts the profile dynamically during the day or night. I know I could run longer shutter times as an alternative, but if it ever comes down to needing a clear crisp image for the police, then for me, this is my best chance.

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

You may have solved this already, but if not, I am using HomeSeer (H4) with this LUX meter now for about a year. So far it has been reliable. The first battery made it about 9 months.

I have it set up using the three profiles on my Dahua cameras (5442, etc). So there are day/night profiles but also a dawn/dusk profile (so 3 profiles total on my Dahua cameras).

Without the LUX meter I always found the switch to night/day to be so dramatic. Meaning when the camera flips from day to night via a schedule the image was to dark. And when I flipped from night to day via a schedule, the image was very washed out. But I run the fastest shutter speed I can which contributes heavily to this problem.

That is why the LUX meter is such a win if you run with really fast shutter speeds. With three profiles (day/night/general) I can rotate through those seamlessly throughout the day and night - and always have crisp images.

The thing about the day/night paradigm, if a heavy storm came along (snow/rain) during the day, the image would get too dark to be useful - because it was stuck in the day profile until a specific time in the evening. Now with the LUX meter it sees that it is getting dark and adjusts the profile dynamically during the day or night. I know I could run longer shutter times as an alternative, but I if it ever comes down to needing a clear crisp image for the police, then for me, this is my best chance.

I bought a Zooz 4 in 1 sensor that reads illumination to start controlling my outdoor lights like this. I would like to eventually get a sensor doing exactly what you're doing for the cameras..
I think yours is more sensitive and a better option. I've been testing this sensor and in the shade on the porch it shows 100% light while its cloudy outside. Has your sensor given readings like that or is it more precise?

 

[DanDenver]

It reports more frequently in bright than in dark. However I find it very accurate in either brightness. It seems quite sensitive to changes in brightness. I just play around with things way too much (retired) and noticed that by night it is not as 'talkative' to HomeSeer.

Let me explain.

So this LUX Meter sends a signal out to HomeSeer (a data blip) based on its own internal algorithm. I don't pretend to know all things it considers, but delta from the last reading is one of them. The owners manual indicates that you can modify this delta, but I found no luck with that.

If you want to dig deeper into those settings, search for this phrase "Light Threshold Report" on this page.

Anyway! What happens when dusk/dawn approaches is that the delta between light readings is smaller and that causes the sensor to report to HomeSeer less frequently.
Here is an example in HS logs. Note how reporting is less frequent as the evening passes. These logs are from last night. See the last line (top line) that is finally zero. That is when It is completely dark outside. If you look at the very top line that is slightly cut off you can see that the next report is 5:41am:

Beyond those minor and inconsequential thoughts, it is very sensitive to any changes. I ended up just using it on all of its default settings and it works really well.

In HomeSeer I have 6 events that run all the profile changes. In the below image are the 3 events that manage going from the 'Day' profile to the 'General' profile and finally the 'Night' profile. These logs are from last night.

Note the last event in the below pic. That event exists in case the LUX meter does not report. This happened once when the battery died without my knowledge. The image from the camera becomes black and completely unusable. So this event is a "catch-all" and as you can see ran last time in December of 22. It is rare, but occasionally the LUX meter does not report or (in the first few months) I had not written events that covered all use cases and so some times the events did not run.
As of today the events run flawlessly, but the LUX meter still fails to report a few times a year.

The image does not show the corresponding 3 events that manage the profiles from 'Night' to 'Day' but they operate the same, just in the opposite order.

The event names pretty much explain how they are triggered. For example the event called "DN_DayToGeneral_35_281" means that when the LUX meter reports between 281 and 35, I switch the camera to the 'General' profile. And in the logs (first image above) you can see that at 7:59PM that condition was met and the camera profiles were dynamically changed from 'Day' to 'General'.

With this LUX meter you can tweak it to change profiles at exactly the amount of light you want it to change. I run my shutter speeds very high so this approach lets me do that without introducing images that are too bright or too dark for about an hour each day (dusk/dawn). The only other way to overcome this is to simply run slower shutter speeds and that is a legit approach, I just wanted to go the extra mile.