Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
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I remember when I first got a 5231. I thought it was so good. And it was for the time. But the newer cams really show its age.
You're absolutely correct about where the money is made. For me and others, detecting the animals is more than fun, because in some settings animals are the main threat and cause of damage. We never would have known what happened to one of our cats had it not been for the video of a coyote nailing it. I've had a few cases of identifying how barriers around crops were breached, leading to hardening the defenses. I totally support Dahua enhancing the cameras to better serve the needs of their customer base. My beef is that the blasted human/vehicle detection can't be turned off, and plain-old nice but stupid IVS has been eliminated from the cameras with the better image sensors.While animals are a fun thing to 'track', I think the security manufactures are making a lot more money on human and vehicle detection.
Wow, thank you for this comprehensive thread that fully explains the limitations imposed on the newer firmware of many Dahua cameras, especially the 5442 series. I had suspected that the IVS doesn't really shut off the vehicle/human detection (when unchecked) on any of the recent firmwares that I have tried, but you have confirmed that, as well as confirming that it used to work on older revisions. Nice work, and I agree that it is maddening. Is it worth trying to point this out to @EMPIRETECANDY and @Wildcat_1 to see if anything can be done to re-enable these controls?You're absolutely correct about where the money is made. For me and others, detecting the animals is more than fun, because in some settings animals are the main threat and cause of damage. We never would have known what happened to one of our cats had it not been for the video of a coyote nailing it. I've had a few cases of identifying how barriers around crops were breached, leading to hardening the defenses. I totally support Dahua enhancing the cameras to better serve the needs of their customer base. My beef is that the blasted human/vehicle detection can't be turned off, and plain-old nice but stupid IVS has been eliminated from the cameras with the better image sensors.
Already done, and it didn't need any pointing out to Andy. He has been very helpful, gracious, and transparent with me about this. My own conclusion is that nothing will change unless and until a big customer cares about it. I'm still doing some testing and plan to report results in a week or two. It goes slow, the main reason is I haven't been able to train wild animals to walk through the tripwires on my commandIs it worth trying to point this out to @EMPIRETECANDY and @Wildcat_1 to see if anything can be done to re-enable these controls?
With all due respect, animal crossings should not be considered "false alarms" in this context: all it would take is a way to truly disable the filtering that takes place for people and vehicles when those checkboxes are unchecked. Unfortunately, those controls don't do anything anymore.Yes, currently maybe use the none AI model IPC-T2231T-ZS still can catch the animals, other models has less false alarms on animals now.
@jrbeddow I do have an idea on this one. SMD 4.0 for example features (on the latest cams of which only a few have this currently) increasing detection around a wider set of AI animals. This is used to determine what NOT to trigger on of course. My thought here is that we could use that on an inverse. In other words we paint the picture of where this may be needed (use case) and that based on that look to use the AI algorithm the other way. This is to say that when human/vehicle detection is unchecked look for targets that are NOT human/vehicle to trigger upon and use the AI algorithms that detect animals to NOT cause a trigger, to , in that example, trigger a captured. Might be a way to approach that as a need as new cams are released. Will think on that some more but just something that came to mind as I was playing with SMD 4.0With all due respect, animal crossings should not be considered "false alarms" in this context: all it would take is a way to truly disable the filtering that takes place for people and vehicles when those checkboxes are unchecked. Unfortunately, those controls don't do anything anymore.
Yes understood which is why I was theorizing that utilizing AI to assist in animal detection only when Human/Vehicle is disabled could be a way to tackle it IF the use case could be justified.I want to make sure I'm not accidentally leaving the impression that I want the cameras to detect ONLY animals. I want to know about the people and vehicles going by my house as well as the coyotes, cougars, etc. Out of curiosity I compared firmware file sizes. The 4431-series cameras do everything I want except for their image sensor not doing well in the dark, firmware file size 14 megabytes. The 5442 and 5842 camera file sizes are now around 86 megabytes. and they lost the ability to detect animals. I know, I know, the majority of users don't see this as a loss, it just feels needlessly dumb to me.
Exactly and thats why I mentioned, 2 key pieces could be pursued, 1) ensure AI algorithm is disabled when Human/Vehicle/Non-Motor Vehicle (in case of 7x series) is unchecked, 2) use SMD 4.0 AI algorithm for inverse target capture focused on those needed animal capture. I.e.. when AI algorithm is disabled (therefore no human or vehicles are being targeted) instead flip to using the SMD 4.0 'dismiss animal's intelligence to instead target those dismissed objects. That way you still benefit from things like dismissing tree's, branches, leaves, blowing trash etc. Now I just have to build the case, document how to do it in code and sell it to Dahua for their feedbackAfter also messing around a lot with it, seems like what's happening is that the AI model still is active with IVS on no matter how you have those controls set. I suspect that something along the lines of what you're saying is happening - the model continues to operate with some discrimination against animals vs more simply as it did before.
If that could be achieved it would be the best of both worlds. I'm currently running a 5231 and 2231 side-by-side. The 5231 gets a lot more triggers. The 2231 often misses small animals like mice or chipmunks, but it also misses bugs flying through the IR light, shadows, webs, and so forth. I'm torn over which way I like better. My 4231 LPR camera even triggers on scorpions within a few feet of the camera.That way you still benefit from things like dismissing tree's, branches, leaves, blowing trash etc.
Good out-of-box thinking! I'm kind of a debbie downer and thinking of the downsides first. With not too many exceptions, the turret cams don't have the alarm input, and many of the bullet cams don't. Since I run external IR illuminators, there's probably sufficient power available for a PIR sensor. I'm thinking the biggest obstacle would be the range of the PIR sensor, which I'm guessing is limited to ~30-40 feet. IVS picks up things a few hundred feet away. If I had a 32 channel NVR instead of 16 channel, I'd be experimenting with side-by-side cameras, a dumb one to detect something is there, and another with a better image sensor see what it is. A lot of things that are pretty well visible on a 5442 or 4k-x are just a moving blur on the other cameras.If I remember correctly the Dahua cameras have a pair of wires for external triggering.
Wow, you're way ahead of me. All I'd need is a new NVR (Dahua NVR can also trigger multiple channels on an event from one camera), new switch, a few k$ more of cameras, and a place to hide from my wife I'm already on the edge of the cliff talking about the new PTZ Andy posted info for a few days ago.The IVS on the 5231/2231 say something's there and trigger the 5442/4K-X.