[Discussion] Looking for better camera at night, livingroom

[Operations]

Yep the D2 will result in soft/fuzzy focus at the distances you will be at.

Doesnt have to be the 5449. If you have a whole other idea?

Why does the D2 2.8mm only get good focus at 10-15 ft? And the 3.6? Even futher away?

 

[wittaj]

Doesnt have to be the 5449. If you have a whole other idea?

Why does the D2 2.8mm only get good focus at 10-15 ft? And the 3.6? Even futher away?

The D2 is a dual lens, so it is blending the two images together and that can result in fuzzy/soft edges as it tries to accomplish getting color and details in lower light conditions.

 

[Operations]

The D2 is a dual lens, so it is blending the two images together and that can result in fuzzy/soft edges as it tries to accomplish getting color and details in lower light conditions.

But it is a good option for when what i wanna record is a few meters away?

 

[wittaj]

I think it is blurry across the distances. I thought bigredfish tried a dual lens and felt same thing.

 

[Operations]

I think it is blurry across the distances. I thought bigredfish tried a dual lens and felt same thing.

So it is simple put not a good model to buy?

 

[Operations]

This is your thread, so no need to open another thread.

In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures and help the camera recognize people and cars.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image. But try not to go above 70 for anything and try to have contrast be at least 7-10 digits higher than brightness.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

I have been playing around with this on a 5442 ZE (not mine). questions:

custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and

Exposure Comp is that what you mean by "0-4 ms exposure"? default is 50 if i dial this down to 0 to 4 (during the day) it make the image noticable darker. Should it do that like a lot?
Auto iris On/Off?
"0-50 gain" this is Advanced 3D right? What about Advanced 2D?

"custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms" this is like for day and night? or is there a different setting for day?

"
In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter."

drop the 4ms.. this is Advanced 3D you are talking about right?

Encoding strategy? General / Smart (probably not) / AI?

SVC: 1 (off ) / 2 / 3?

I apologize for not completely getting it in once.

 

[wittaj]

Leave exposure comp at 50. 0 to 4ms is for shutter (some cameras will call it exposure).

Advanced 3d and 2d is Noise Reduction, not gain. Drip 2d and 3d as low as you can tolerate but do not have above 45 or so. It is not a range. Match 2d and 3d number.

Daytime shutter can be faster like 0-2ms, but yours is indoors so that is different as it won't get as much light. I would stay at 0-8.3ms to start.

Auto iris is fine.

General encoding strategy.

When you use CBR instead of VBR, then I don't think you have access to svc but if so, leave off.

 

[Operations]

Leave exposure comp at 50. 0 to 4ms is for shutter (some cameras will call it exposure).

Advanced 3d and 2d is Noise Reduction, not gain. Drip 2d and 3d as low as you can tolerate but do not have above 45 or so. It is not a range. Match 2d and 3d number.

Daytime shutter can be faster like 0-2ms, but yours is indoors so that is different as it won't get as much light. I would stay at 0-8.3ms to start.

Auto iris is fine.

General encoding strategy.

When you use CBR instead of VBR, then I don't think you have access to svc but if so, leave off.

This is not my situation, just to be clear
It is on CBR and i am seeing SVC, but it is on 1. So off.

 

[Operations]

This is not my situation, just to be clear
It is on CBR and i am seeing SVC, but it is on 1. So off.

H264 i should use right? H265 uses bigger blocks so bad for low light.. (right?). What about H264 B / H?

 

[wittaj]

H264H is usually OK, but plain h264 is the safest.