Ethernet, POE, Gigabit Switch, Which One Do I Need?

savatreatabvr

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I'm thoroughly confused! on installing my 16 ch NVR system. II need to run 8 ethernet cables underground but the pipe diameter is to small to pull all 8 cables through. I was told I needed a 4 port Gigabit switch to reduce the number of cables going into the pipe from 8 cables to 5 cables, that would be 4 camera cables plus the one uplink data cable from the switch. But now my neighbor tells me I need a 4 port ethernet or POE switch instead of the gigabit switch. whats the difference between the switches?
 

Broachoski

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Do you by chance have electric available to where the pipe runs? If so then you would need only 1 cable (minimum) and install and 8 port POE switch there.
 

savatreatabvr

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Do you by chance have electric available to where the pipe runs? If so then you would need only 1 cable (minimum) and install and 8 port POE switch there.
No, no power at the pipe. The gigabit switch is in the attic and its about 50' to the pipe and an additional 75' to the NVR. Will the gigabit switch work or do I need a POE switch?
 

Mike A.

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Not clear exactly how things are laid out but kind of bottom line, whatever switch is connecting directly to the cams needs to be POE (in some way) in order to provide power to them. An upstream switch connecting switch-to-switch to it does not need to be POE. You'd only be providing an uplink for the network traffic between the two. Unless, as below, you're using the upstream switch to power it.

They all are Ethernet switches:
  • Gigabit = Ethernet at 1Gbps
  • The "Ethernet switch" as you're calling it I guess is a 10/100Mbps Ethernet switch
  • A POE switch also is Ethernet which provides "Power over Ethernet" and will be either of the above just depending on what speed you choose. Most cams are limited to 10/100 anyway and with only 4 cams/ports you won't really benefit even as an aggregated link. But nice to have the faster speed and no reason not to use Gigabit if you find one at a good price/feature set you want. Might be useful for other future use.
There are some small 4-port POE-powered switches. (i.e., 1 POE line in, 4 POE out) which eliminates the need for power where the switch is. Not sure what output power your NVR is or what cams you're using to know whether that might work. I've not used this one, just an example:
 

IAmATeaf

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If there’s power at the remote end where the cable runs terminate then I would just run the max number of cables you can run in the pipe and then install an 8 port POE plus uplink port type switch at the remote end. The cams would then plug into the POE switch and be powered by the switch.

Reason for running more then 1 cable is simply that you only want to go through the pain of running cables the once so the others would be backups, this is exactly what I did when I ran cables to my garage.
 

Raby

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how about running 2 ethernet cables and one electricity cable
the reason for 2 cables is just for backup / future use
then all cameras connect to he poe switch at the end and this switch would get power from the electricity cable.
 

TonyR

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how about running 2 ethernet cables and one electricity cable
the reason for 2 cables is just for backup / future use
then all cameras connect to he poe switch at the end and this switch would get power from the electricity cable.
Not a good idea running 120VAC power and Ethernet cables in the same conduit, especially that close together and parallel for any distance.
 

DavidDavid

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Generally it's a better idea (cheaper in the long run) to run more cables instead of putting a switch at the other end, but sometimes it can make sense to do that.

I've had this in a shed for 3 years with no issues. Currently unavailable on Amazon but basically the same thing as the link above.


This is the second "switch" I've had in that location, the first being a true 5 port Poe switch (because I have power in the shed) but the Poe died on that after a year so I got this. I now have a conduit buried to this shed and could pull 3 more cables (powering 3 cameras and a WiFi AP) if I wanted, and if/when this dies that's exactly what I'll do. The runs would be around 150ft of eithernet for each device, and I'd need to upgrade the Poe switch in my house because I only have one port left on it, but again, cheaper in the long run because I'll have one less device that can die and need replaced.

Edit: I have a non poe nvr, if you're planning to plug in one NVR output into a switch, then use that to feed 8 cameras to the NVR idk how that will work. Issues I could see being the one port not being able to power 8 camera (may or may not be an issue, I have no clue) but more importantly the NVR may only be able to recognize one camera per port. Might want to test that out first.

Edit #2: I think Poe nvrs have a main Ethernet port for network access (the same as non-Poe nvrs) and in addition to that have 16 poe ports for 16 cameras. You could plug the main port into a switch to get network access, then that into the switch at your 8 camera location. Or something like that. That would get rid of the two potential issues I thought of in my first edit.
 
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The Automation Guy

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Because you don't have power where you want to put a switch, the simplest solution is probably to use a switch like the Ubiquity Switch Flex.. It's a 5 port (one for the incoming data/POE++ line and 4 to run devices) switch that can be powered by a POE++ injector (or switch) AND can power 4 POE ports with up to a total of 46 watts. That's not a ton of power, but it's probably enough to run 4 fixed CCTV cameras (not PTZ). You can power the switch via POE++ power from inside the house and that POE++ power runs the switch and is separated into powering the 4 POE ports. This means the switch does not need power at it's location to work.

The biggest problem is likely going to be the availability of the switch. Ubiquity gets them in stock and they sell out almost immediately. I'm sure other manufactures makes a similar switch, but I do not know of any off hand.
 
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savatreatabvr

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If there’s power at the remote end where the cable runs terminate then I would just run the max number of cables you can run in the pipe and then install an 8 port POE plus uplink port type switch at the remote end. The cams would then plug into the POE switch and be powered by the switch.

Reason for running more then 1 cable is simply that you only want to go through the pain of running cables the once so the others would be backups, this is exactly what I did when I ran cables to my garage.
I do have 110vac in the attic for the 4 port gigabit switch. I have 4 cameras plugged into it and the uplink cable running underground to the NVR. I havent powered the system up yet due to me not knowing if I have the correct switch, (ethernet, POE or gigabit)? I have a BV-Tech 5 Port PoE+ Gigabit Switch (4 PoE+ Gigabit Ports with 1 Gigabit Uplink) – 55W – 802.3af/at, link below, that I bought off amazon but now I'm wondering if I should get an 8 port ethernet, POE or gigabit switch and re-run all 8 cameras to it and just run the one uplink cable underground? But I still don't have my main question answered, which one do I need, an ethernet switch or a POE switch or a gigabit switch or do they all do the same things? I'm assuming the gigabit switch I already have will power my POE cameras and send the data through the uplink cable to the NVR or router but still confused?


 

wittaj

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As someone else pointed out. They are all ethernet switches. You can get them in 100Mbps and 1Gbps variety. Without POE or POE+ as part of it, then it is just a network switch and cannot power the cameras.

If it has POE or POE+ associated with it, then it can provide power. You can get it as 100Mbps or 1Gbps.

It appears you already have a POE+ gigabit switch, so that will power 4 cameras.

If you want to power 8 cameras, then you either need another 4 port POE switch or an 8 port POE switch.

Now coupled with that is the power budget of the POE switch. The switch you have is rated at 55W. So even though it is POE+, you could not run 4 POE+ cameras on it.

POE is 15.4 watts and POE+ is 30 watts.

So if you run one POE camera, that is 30 watts of the 55 available, leaving 25 watts for the remaining 3 ports. Depending on the demand of your cameras, it may or may not be enough. Some cameras may use 12 watts at night with Infrared.

So total wattage available is probably more important than whether it is gigabit or not...
 

savatreatabvr

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As someone else pointed out. They are all ethernet switches. You can get them in 100Mbps and 1Gbps variety. Without POE or POE+ as part of it, then it is just a network switch and cannot power the cameras.

If it has POE or POE+ associated with it, then it can provide power. You can get it as 100Mbps or 1Gbps.

It appears you already have a POE+ gigabit switch, so that will power 4 cameras.

If you want to power 8 cameras, then you either need another 4 port POE switch or an 8 port POE switch.

Now coupled with that is the power budget of the POE switch. The switch you have is rated at 55W. So even though it is POE+, you could not run 4 POE+ cameras on it.

POE is 15.4 watts and POE+ is 30 watts.

So if you run one POE camera, that is 30 watts of the 55 available, leaving 25 watts for the remaining 3 ports. Depending on the demand of your cameras, it may or may not be enough. Some cameras may use 12 watts at night with Infrared.

So total wattage available is probably more important than whether it is gigabit or not...
Wow, you nailed it. Thank you! Finally makes since but for some reason I can't find the wattage rating on my cameras, link below to my Lorex system. I'm thinking my switch is probably useless for my configuration. Many cheaper brands of switches on amazon claim high wattage but I compare them to, lets say a cheap car amp, they'll say 2000 watts but actually only put out 80 watts so I'm thinking Netgear, TP-Link or BV-Tech won't lie on their wattage ratings. I found a BV-Tech which should be suitable, its sporting 96 watts, link below.


 

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savatreatabvr

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WOW that is a lot of money for that system. 4K on the 1/2.8" sensor will not be good at night. That sensor works great for 2MP and the 8MP will need 4 times the light at night. It will never reach 150 feet at night and IDENTIFY, maybe 15 feet though.

That camera will use 11 watts at night with full infrared on.

I should have joined this forum before buying the system, lol. And thank you for the camera spec sheet, I couldn't find it but I'm second guessing myself again about the switch, the amazon link I posted above I don't think is powerful enough so I'm going with this one, link below, or is it overkill?

 

savatreatabvr

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WOW that is a lot of money for that system. 4K on the 1/2.8" sensor will not be good at night. That sensor works great for 2MP and the 8MP will need 4 times the light at night. It will never reach 150 feet at night and IDENTIFY, maybe 15 feet though.

That camera will use 11 watts at night with full infrared on.

This may be a really stupid question but the original 5 port switch I bought has one uplink port and four powered ports, the new eight port switch does not have an uplink port, all eight ports are powered ports. If I'm not using a wireless router how does the new switch communicate with the router? Am I missing something here?
 

wittaj

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You connect one of the ports to another switch or router.
 

savatreatabvr

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You connect one of the ports to another switch or router.

Thats what I thought I was just confused on why one switch would have a dedicated uplink port but the other one didnt. I'm only connecting 4 cameras to the new 8 port switch which gives me a total of 5 ethernet cables to pull underground. I read online that the cable connected to the router and switch needs to be a crossover cable? If so I need to re-run that cable. I will post a drawing of the camera layout later today.
 

savatreatabvr

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Not so....where did you read that ? I'm curious.
I read it on some website some where. It said switch to router connection required a crossover cable and everything else was straight through cable. I've heard of crossover cables before so I assumed the site was legit but I'm kinda new to the whole networking thing. This forum has definitely helped me on some technical questions, well what I thought was technical but most think simple, lol.
 
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