Most of Europe has embraced socialism. The EU is part of that outcome.
The US leans more towards the individual rights and a written constitution , as described well by @tigerwillow1 and @sdkid
EU follies
- Thread starter bigredfish
- Start date
Most of Europe has embraced socialism. The EU is part of that outcome.
The US leans more towards the individual rights and a written constitution , as described well by @tigerwillow1 and @sdkid
This is no doubt caused by the war on our border, with millions of refugees and constant stream of associated news. Started by a country that has been promising us the same treatment for last 35 years. People naturally are more supportive of the government in such situation.
There are the usual disagreements of course: abortion, climate change, both sides call each other Russian spies and so on. But remaining disagreements between supporters of major parties are really on who can be trusted, who has inferior motives etc, rather than specific ideology. Ideologically I think large majority is centre right (that would be "quite socialist" by US standards
, but it is center right in comparison with the local alternatives). It is because of the back then crappy air quality in the post-communist prefab concrete apartment blocks. Especially the dry air in winter caused by bad insulation and consequent scalding hot cast iron radiators that were always mounted under windows and powered by district heating.
I had the exact same problem. Pretty bad sinus infections once or twice each winter, and frequent headaches caused by it until my late teens when I moved to UK. It stopped 100%. Then I moved back to Poland almost 2 decades later, but I was now living in a self built house. Now it is ~7 years later I had not one sinus infection. The secret? Low temperature underfloor heating, and a well insulated and breathable building.
We do not know the cause for sure, but there are plenty of issues when the amount of renewables on the grid are pushed further and further.
A week ago there was a serious incident here in Poland. There was a sunny day and prediction of lots of wind. But the wind didn't materialise and the sun has set. Adding to this a couple of coal fired blocks failed to start on time in the evening and the West Europe had no power to spare. The result? The Ukraine had to bail us out or there would be load shedding/blackout. Here is an article in polish (use the translate feature of your browser) W Polsce zabrakło prądu. Pomogła Ukraina
This is why I'm a big fan of local solar+batteries allowing one to run off grid for a while if required.
The problem is technical people are pushed/allow themselves to be pushed by politicians and then get blamed when things don't work.
It's a bit like this:
Politician/Manager: can you make pigs fly?
Tech: no, we can't!
Politician/Manager: but we really need to, our future depends on it. We simply have to. There is no choice!
Tech: OK, maybe if we strap a solid rocket motor and wings, plus a guidance system we can make pigs fly, but it is stupid, and has many....
Politician/Manager: (interrupting)Great job. Just keep them in the air, ok?
A month later when flaming pigs start crashing with tall buildings and passenger jets.
Politician/Manager: ...Through the incompetence of our technical advisors we were led down this incorrect path...
The word has practically lost its meaning. Especially in a global context. A party that is called right wing fascist in Europe would probably be called socialist in the US if their actual actions were known.
Things that get called socialist in the US like national health care or higher education are only contested by the fringe movements with single digit support in most EU countries. They are considered utilities like electricity and water. You either have monopolies or state control. Neither are free market. Of the two I prefer the latter (lesser evil)
Even things like government control of industry has pretty wide support for strategic industries.
Worker rights... The left wants to shorten the working week, the right makes new national holidays and makes Sundays a mandatory day off in trade. Two opposing ideologies, but both result with less work...
And so on. My observation is that except few isolated items(abortion etc) most political disagreements are not on the substance, but who can be trusted to actually implement the stuff they promise rather than steal the money and run away(at least in my part of Europe).
The problem in western Europe is not really socialism, but the political correctness mixed with baby steps of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism? In Europe ? How come? Well, read about parents who had their children removed for holding incorrect beliefs in certain Western EU countries. Or how the curbs on free speech laws are implemented in other countries.
How publishing certain research that shows some crime types are perpetrated mostly by certain groups of people can land you in jail in yet other countries.
None of that has anything to do with socialism.
Most people in Europe agree that there are limits to free speech. We don't have the tradition of absolute free speech as it is in the US. For example, not many oppose people who advocate violence being penalised. But fining people because they hurt someone's feelings? That is insane.
Calling that socialism misses the point unfortunately. It is important to call things by their correct name or they will spread. This is the beginnings of authoritarianism. When the state has the authority to tell you how to raise your child or what you are allowed to say in research or on the Internet. That is authoritarian. Whether you prefer left or right ideology everyone should be against that.
Authoritarianism starts with baby steps,
The US has only 3 year head start on Poland/Lithuania with its constitution
Not all men were equal in Polish/Lithuanian constitution, but neither they were in the US. US had slavery, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had serfdom (both quite bad by today's standards). Another interesting historic coincidence. US abolished slavery in 1865, the last bit of Poland (under Russian rule at the time) abolished serfdom a year later.
It is a commonly held belief Poland was partitioned by Russia/Germany/Austria-Hungary as a result of (amongstcother things)"too much individualism" and not enough "patriotic sacrifice".
The EU is determined to destroy Europe
www.zerohedge.com
EU Justice Commissioner Signals Brussels Will Continue To Blackmail Hungary In Run Up To National Elections
EU Justice Commissioner Signals Brussels Will Continue To Blackmail Hungary In Run Up To National Elections | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
I'm sure this will work out fine
The UK has officially lowered the voting age to 16.
London’s youth?40% ethnic minority under 18
Higher foreign-born share due to mass migration
Most vote Labour by 60–70% margins
They just handed permanent power to the progressive machine.
UK has officially fallen.
The UK has officially lowered the voting age to 16.
London’s youth?40% ethnic minority under 18
Higher foreign-born share due to mass migration
Most vote Labour by 60–70% margins
They just handed permanent power to the progressive machine.
UK has officially fallen.
Last edited:
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Meanwhile in Denmark....
(and I looked it up-- very true!)
(and I looked it up-- very true!)
CCTVCam
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The word has practically lost its meaning. Especially in a global context. A party that is called right wing fascist in Europe would probably be called socialist in the US if their actual actions were known.
Things that get called socialist in the US like national health care or higher education are only contested by the fringe movements with single digit support in most EU countries. They are considered utilities like electricity and water. You either have monopolies or state control. Neither are free market. Of the two I prefer the latter (lesser evil)
Even things like government control of industry has pretty wide support for strategic industries.
Worker rights... The left wants to shorten the working week, the right makes new national holidays and makes Sundays a mandatory day off in trade. Two opposing ideologies, but both result with less work...
And so on. My observation is that except few isolated items(abortion etc) most political disagreements are not on the substance, but who can be trusted to actually implement the stuff they promise rather than steal the money and run away(at least in my part of Europe).
The problem in western Europe is not really socialism, but the political correctness mixed with baby steps of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism? In Europe ? How come? Well, read about parents who had their children removed for holding incorrect beliefs in certain Western EU countries. Or how the curbs on free speech laws are implemented in other countries.
How publishing certain research that shows some crime types are perpetrated mostly by certain groups of people can land you in jail in yet other countries.
None of that has anything to do with socialism.
Most people in Europe agree that there are limits to free speech. We don't have the tradition of absolute free speech as it is in the US. For example, not many oppose people who advocate violence being penalised. But fining people because they hurt someone's feelings? That is insane.
Calling that socialism misses the point unfortunately. It is important to call things by their correct name or they will spread. This is the beginnings of authoritarianism. When the state has the authority to tell you how to raise your child or what you are allowed to say in research or on the Internet. That is authoritarian. Whether you prefer left or right ideology everyone should be against that.
Authoritarianism starts with baby steps,
The US has only 3 year head start on Poland/Lithuania with its constitution
Not all men were equal in Polish/Lithuanian constitution, but neither they were in the US. US had slavery, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had serfdom (both quite bad by today's standards). Another interesting historic coincidence. US abolished slavery in 1865, the last bit of Poland (under Russian rule at the time) abolished serfdom a year later.
It is a commonly held belief Poland was partitioned by Russia/Germany/Austria-Hungary as a result of (amongstcother things)"too much individualism" and not enough "patriotic sacrifice".
Good Post. Socialism in the US is protrayed as some kind of communist evil when in reality in the UK / EU it's very mainstream rights for workers not communism. EU citizens look at the way the US treats the majority of it's citizens with horror eg. the fact you can be sacked for any reason such as the boss simply doesn't like your face, the lack of free health care etc. Basic workers rights and healthcare are considered basic human rights in the EU / UK. You can make a good argument eg healthcare is better in the US but you pay for it big time. eg. I heard insurance is around $800 a month per person. In the UK, the amount of tax we pay to give us free healthcare is much less than that as it's not market driven. I've read on here of hospitals trying to charge £14k for an mri following emergency treatment and you guys having to still pay around $4k if you can negotiate it down. In the UK it's free! Even if you go private, it's around £500 for a single body part or £800 for a full body mri. That's the difference when greed and market forces dictate charges.
Where Socialism falls down atm is the UK especially and probably the EU, are heaing down the authoritariansim route, (so dictatorial) and that isn't socilaism but either communism or right wing depending on the type. eg loss of freedom of speech, being controlled by endless rules / laws on what you can and can't do.
However, beware this is coming to most developed countries including the US. If you don't believe me then take the warning from UN Agenda 2030 - google it! The offical version is on the UN website but the commentary on it is distributed wide and far. I believe all 96 (?) UN nations including the US are signatories and have agreed it implement it by 2030. Reading about it will give right wing US horrors, it's giving many people in the EU horrors already with it's not just it's aims but how it's potentially going to achieve them.
You get free healthcare insurance in UK ? Wow.
I pay around 700€ every month. Additional nursing care. One might think that i can go to a doctor. Thats wrong. The money i pay is not for my own insurance. The money is given to people who dont work, some not even born here. They dont pay anything, free insurance. We have around 1.1 million ukrainians here. Most of them pay nothing.
I have to wait months for an appointment. Yeah. That sovjet system is fair. Its getting worse from year to year. Everyone has insurance, so everyone get just a minimum. People who earn much pay much, that sounds fair.
According to news some wait like 3 years to get their teeths fixed in UK. Sounds good. 3 years of pain and paying "nothing".
Same bullshit here with university. You can go there for "free". Then you dont get a job because there is no barrier. Anyone has your degree. Lol
I pay 0$ for a CT scan that is shown on the billing for $8000-$11,000
I pay 0$ for everything medical related.*
* in the US once you hit 65 and sign up for Medicare (and a supplement policy) your medical costs are about $400 p/mo. No other charges for anything
Approx $200 for Full Medicare and approx $200 for a supplemental policy.
Many imho foolishly don’t pay for the $200 supplemental, which only works for those who never see a doctor and have no health issues…. Until they do , then they’re fucked
Good to see the Muslim King is focused on the important things 
www.foxnews.com
King Charles shatters 100 year-old royal tradition to usher in modern monarchy: experts
King Charles III, the 76-year-old monarch, has changed the rules at Buckingham Palace by relaxing the traditional all-white tennis dress code that has been in place since 1919.
www.foxnews.com
CCTVCam
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Completey free unless you choose to go private which is faster but more exclusive. Wait for an appointment for a GP is same day for urgent matter, about 4-6 weeks if routine.
Dentistry, yes there's a lack of dentists. However, if you have one, then a few weeks for an appointment or immediate to a few days if urgent. We also have dental hospitals that will see you same day if unable to wait.
We pay National Insurance on top of tax to pay for everything ie. Free Healthcare, State Pension, Dentistry (although with this there are low charges to be paid on top for work done), schooling (excluding Universities), etc.
The rates are here: National Insurance rates and categories
Bit complex at 1st but for someone earning £1k per month (very low wage) the cost of the tax is £58 per week, so around £232 a month but obviously that includes all the above not just healthcare.. The amount paid depends on your earnings and is just deducted as tax.
And this shows how corrupted is a system in the US.
CT scan is procedure which in Europe costs 200-400Euro (full price).. And for comparsion most popular drugs costs 10-20 Euro per month (full price)..
In the US, healthcare providers deliberately inflate the prices of their services, only to "secretly" give insurance companies an 80-90% discount, which the policyholders are unaware of.
People sees a completely rigged price of $11,000 for a relatively simple CT scan. Or $100,000-$250,000 for emergency treatment (surgery, etc.).
Seeing such prices, they are forced to buy insurance somewhere (with all problems and limitations - like deductables) .
In Europe, the regulators (appropriate institutions appointed by the government or the EU) are so strong that healthcare providers can't pull such stunts.
That's why we have medical services and medications at normal (compared to the US) prices. And no one here is afraid of going bankrupt as a result of some unplanned medical event or accident.
it's good that you have that option.
Especially as I understands Trump try to limit Medicare availability.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
You in the UK have been brainwashed into believing that's a good thing, yet your country is swirling around the drain quickly due to it's idiotic policies.
All of you over there need to grow a pair and take your government back from the elitists.
For those who are on drugs
add also the $2k maximum part D out of pocket cost, or another $167/mo. That makes my exact monthly medical cost $185 part B + 244 supplement + 167 part D maximum = $596/month, $7,152 annually. Additionally, I use a totally optional "Direct Primary Care" practice that adds another $275/month, for a grand total of $871/month, $10,452 annually. That's a pretty hard total because there aren't any other deductibles or copays.For the extra $275 a month with the primary care doctor, I get fast access when needed, appointments up to an hour long, and somebody who actually thinks instead of following the government and insurance company scripts, and doesn't push unnecessary pills. One example, there was absolutely no covid shot pressure.
I resented this cost until a cancer diagnosis last year. Now I'm on the receiving end of what I sometimes think is overly generous medicare. After a flurry of initial tests and visits last year, I'm now on CT and MRI scans, blood tests, and oncologist visits 4 times a year. All at not additional cost. The elephant in the room however is a drug I'm on that's supposedly $16,532 per month, or just a hair under $200k per year. That's where the $2k maximum part D out of pocket comes from. I'm saying "supposedly" on this because it looks to me like a big scam to transfer government money to big pharma. The same drug costs about half in many other countries, and there are reduced rates for people who don't have insurance to cover it.
Accessibility has been very good. The specific diagnosis last year took a lot of individual steps of tests and scans. The availability was close to amazing, with lots of different providers clearing time and jumping through hoops to shorten the process.