Fiber instead of PoE, what about power?

[luk8899]

I'm considering swapping my PoE setup for fiber on my cameras for reasons of better lightning survivability (lightning just blowing up a camera nearby rather than half of the system as it happened once for me). My cameras are mounted on 6m tall steel poles which are 1.5m in the ground. So 4.5m.above ground and two cameras on each pole.

I wonder what about power. Someone may say "What about it? Just run AC 240V(this being our voltage) same as for anything else and use normal surge protection" However that is a copper cable that will be exposed to the same risk PoE cables were, also same issues with grounding and so on. I can put in surge protectors (just like I can on PoE), but if these surge protectors get overwhelmed I can potentially destroy a lot more expensive equipment connected to AC power than a couple of cameras and switches...

Then there is the cost of running AC power properly that seems much higher than just running PoE for both.

Finally there is the fact I currently just need a small sealed box to terminate the copper in and have a tiny poe splitter for cameras that do not support PoE out of the box. This box would have to become much bigger to fit a media converter, ac fuses and AC surge protection.

I'd love to read about your experiences with this if you live in a high lightning area of not? Is there much benefit to fiber outdoors on distances where copper works fine?

Are there some unexpected advantages/disadvantages of fiber I'm not thinking of? What about the efficiency of power? My system of 11 cameras and various switching equipment consumes 150W most of the time. While electricity is free in the summer for me (thanks to PV/batteries) in the winter I pay quite a bit and the Cctv system is probably responsible for 20% of my entire bill because it's running 24/7. I'd think perhaps PoE switches are more effecient at AC->low voltage DC conversion than "wall warts" sold with cameras, but maybe it's the opposite?

Edit: Also PoE is handy for occasionally (or regularly) restarting cameras which freeze/crash so you can't manage them. If this was using AC power.id have to use some IP relays. Probably out in the box with the media converter.

 

[Underhill]

Only places I’ve seen that were either large footprint or hardened DoD facilities. Unless you’re running and fusion splicing it yourself it’s not feasible vs the cost of replacing a couple cams. When you say “surge protectors”, are you referring to the bs power strips that everyone calls “surge protectors?”

I’d look into real protection/power conditioner and/or maybe a star type network with hardened poe switches (DiN) in between cameras and network equipment.

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

Only places I’ve seen that were either large footprint or hardened DoD facilities. Unless you’re running and fusion splicing it yourself it’s not feasible

I don't mean to come off as rude, but what are you talking about, and how many hardened DoD facilities have you been to? This comment comes across like its from someone who has never worked with fiber before in their life.

Running fiber is trivial and often times easier than copper as there are less length limitations, no interference limitations and no electrical implications. You can terminate fiber easily, or you can just buy pre-made patch cables with whatever connector you want and run that.

Why you think you need a fusion splicer is beyond me

 

[Underhill]

Ever heard the expression “everything before ‘but’ is meaningless bs?”

I’ve worked on several with inner and outer peremiters with ptz, thermal and buffer zones. This being the most recent.

And I’ve never heard of a “professional” using premade Ethernet or fiber runs let alone mechanical splices.

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

Why are we splicing fiber at all?

Termination is not splicing

If you’ve never heard of professionals using pre-terminated fiber then you may not know many professionals

Also, why do we care what “professionals” are doing? OP is installing a few cameras, not a mission critical undersea cable

 

[luk8899]

This post was not meant as a discussion of fiber feasibility, but on the ways people run power alongside it when they want immunity from EMP (such as caused by nearby lightning strike) and voltage gradients in the soil caused by the same.

I'd love to hear what worked, what didn't and so on. I'm fairly well informed on the subject of single building protection, but this is a special circumstance.

When you say “surge protectors”, are you referring to the bs power strips that everyone calls “surge protectors?”

No, I'm referring to surge protectors installed in electrical cabinets like this:


This happens to be type 1+2 (or B+C) which is the minimum required in any residential building with a lightning rod/system.

I’d look into real protection

The above is real, but for anyone reading this please be mindful it's capability depends on the single point grounding quality you have.

Single point grounding is impossible if you have multiple buildings or remote sensors like cameras.

The classic advice is to ground each site so each site has its own single point ground and surge protect every cable on both ends that connects the two sites. Also if you're using any other copper wiring (PoE etc) it should enter the buildings at the same place as the electric utility and grounding and be surge protected there. This is a big obstacle for many people me included.

Even if I had this same place entry and space to locate my switching gear there the cost to surge protect Ethernet to comparable level is much higher due to topology (and remember surge protectors are consumables, have you ever seen an Ethernet surge protector with an "end of life" indicator? I haven't).

/power conditioner and/or maybe a star type network with hardened poe switches (DiN) in between cameras and network equipment.

That is what I have now (actually 3 star network with links between) and I'm replacing it with fiber (not everything , but the longest runs).

And I’ve never heard of a “professional” using premade Ethernet or fiber runs let alone mechanical splices.

You can buy terminated fiber in many different lengths off the shelf. You can custom order runs to exact length if you wish. If you have a conduit large enough to pull LC plugs there is no need for a fusion splicer.

You can also polish your own connectors if you're doing DIY.

Also, why do we care what “professionals” are doing? OP is installing a few cameras, not a mission critical undersea cable

Indeed, this is my property and I consider it a DIY project.

If anyone is interested why I'm interested in fiber now here it is.

I've recently run my own fiber (12 strand single mode g657.a2 in UV resistant TPU) between my house and another building on my property to provide 10G connectivity( I had an old copper cable installed that could only manage 2.5G).

Regarding costs 10G SM 10km SFPs were $11 each (the run is only few dozen meters, but multimode is actually more expensive now here, so I chose single mode).

I've terminated it with pigtails and mechanical splices for now while I'm waiting for my fusion splicer to arrive from China. I could've done polished epoxy connectors instead without the large expense and that was the original plan until I realised I'll have a lot more places on my property to run fiber to, and I found a splicer for 360 EUR. So I decided mechanical splices are fine for few weeks.

The only reason why I didn't choose preterminated is because I have few very tight bends and I could not find preterminated g657.a2 fiber (which has the amazing bend radius of 7.5mm). Also to pull it through a 1in conduit into the other building and the fact I can get 12 strands for half of the cost of 2.

I have a relatively large property with many small buildings and cameras on steel poles. Lightning is a real issue. I've already lost one switch and a bunch of PoE adapters once. I consider myself lucky.