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redpoint5

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Again, how is government doing anything to push EVs or put the cart before the horse? Sure you can get some tax benefits, but as I've said, there's a long long list of things the government incentivizes through taxes, not just EVs. I see car companies building EVs because there's enough demand to justify it. Again, where's the government in that?
I'm a big EV fan, and as such, I abhor bureaucratic corruption (or is it ignorance, since we should assume that first) that thrusts brain-dead schemes like the $7,500 federal tax credit (which is a tax on everyone to encourage rich people to buy a particular thing). Since EVs are superior at certain travel tasks, they require no corrupt (or more likely ignorant) market manipulation. That particular subsidy is basically a wealth transfer to automotive manufacturers since they just charge more for the vehicles, most of which are foreign.

Then there's state subsidies which are equally retarded.

After all that, there's CAFE regulations which make so-called zero emission vehicles artificially valuable by creating carbon credits which are sold on the market.

The whole thing is a convoluted mess invented by retards (being generous here by not calling them corrupt). I could think of better ways to reduce CO2 in 2 seconds of thought that doesn't involve absolute corruption and utter failure, but then again I don't consider increasing the outdoor thermostat a couple degrees to be the existential threat that power hungry politicians would have one believe.

All that pure reason aside, most families should probably have an EV as a 2nd vehicle, or a PHEV, or a hybrid, simply because they are more efficient for certain tasks like driving to work or getting groceries, and that translates to more money in your wallet. Get a used one though, after this supply chain insanity has subsided.
 

redpoint5

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That's not wrong either. I've argued that it's insanity to let a Prius into the HOV lanes because they are exactly the type of vehicle that can grind through stop and go efficiently.

It's the 18 wheeler that should have HOV access because every time they have to touch the brakes they waste exponentially more fuel. We should have semis and Hummers in the HOV lanes if the actual goal was to reduce CO2 emissions, but that was never the objective. Clearly it's a political charade that dimwitted people fall for, which unfortunately is way too many.
 

qflyer

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I'm a big EV fan, and as such, I abhor bureaucratic corruption (or is it ignorance, since we should assume that first) that thrusts brain-dead schemes like the $7,500 federal tax credit (which is a tax on everyone to encourage rich people to buy a particular thing). Since EVs are superior at certain travel tasks, they require no corrupt (or more likely ignorant) market manipulation. That particular subsidy is basically a wealth transfer to automotive manufacturers since they just charge more for the vehicles, most of which are foreign.

Then there's state subsidies which are equally retarded.

After all that, there's CAFE regulations which make so-called zero emission vehicles artificially valuable by creating carbon credits which are sold on the market.

The whole thing is a convoluted mess invented by retards (being generous here by not calling them corrupt). I could think of better ways to reduce CO2 in 2 seconds of thought that doesn't involve absolute corruption and utter failure, but then again I don't consider increasing the outdoor thermostat a couple degrees to be the existential threat that power hungry politicians would have one believe.

All that pure reason aside, most families should probably have an EV as a 2nd vehicle, or a PHEV, or a hybrid, simply because they are more efficient for certain tasks like driving to work or getting groceries, and that translates to more money in your wallet. Get a used one though, after this supply chain insanity has subsided.
Again, the government subsidizes all sorts of things. Big oil gets billions and billions of tax dollars every year. Why do the people complaining about the EV tax credits not complain about those oil subsidies? I'm all for eliminating the EV credits and also eliminating government handouts to everyone else from big oil to parents claiming the child tax credit. If you want a free market, let's have a real one - not one that only subsidizes things you want it to. Your taxes aren't affected when I buy an EV and get a tax credit. That credit I get is my own tax dollars. As I'm sure you know, you only get a credit up to what you pay in federal taxes, not to exceed $7,500. Some people buying an EV may only get 2 or 3 thousand dollars, depending on their income and tax liabilities. States subsidize auto manufacturers, gas stations, you name it. This isn't some benefit that only EVs get, so can we please stop pretending that it is?

Environmental regulations are needed (as much as I as a libertarian hate to admit it). Nobody is ever going to agree on what level on intervention the government should take to protect the environment, and you'll see extremes on both ends. You may see CAFE requirements as punishing ICE vehicles / manufacturers while someone else sees it as a way to help the environment. CAFE has been around since the 1970s, so maybe it's not about EVs?

I do agree that most people should own at least one EV, and it's for the same reason - they save money. The problem is, you can't talk about that because the hardcore right wingers, as seen in this thread, instantly spout off ridiculous talking points from a decade ago. (EVs cost $80,000! Have you seen cobalt mining? Government handouts! LOL, your electricity comes from coal! The grid will shut down if everyone goes electric! What happens when the power goes out? Blah, blah, blah). I drive an EV to save money, not the planet although I'm happy to help out if I do some good there as well.
 
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Impeach that sonofabitch. He is incompetent.

"...BuT ThE pReSiDeNt DoEsN't SeT gAs PrIcEs...Derrrrrrrrrrp..."
Of course-- he just has the ability to manipulate domestic SUPPLY.






 

Parley

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Impeach that sonofabitch. He is incompetent.

"...BuT ThE pReSiDeNt DoEsN't SeT gAs PrIcEs...Derrrrrrrrrrp..."
Of course-- he just has the ability to manipulate domestic SUPPLY.






Exactly. I pointed that out to the liberal on this forum, but he just ignored the threads and continued on calling us right wingers and the Orange man bad.
 

redpoint5

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Exactly. I pointed that out to the liberal on this forum, but he just ignored the threads and continued on calling us right wingers and the Orange man bad.
I clearly have a conservative temperament because I trust myself to do things better than others, or at least trust myself to arrive at an optimal solution with the aid of others I choose more than being compelled into the state mandated "solution". Even in the extremely rare case where I choose worse than some bureaucratic process, I accept responsibility for the consequences of liberty.

That said, I respect a person that speaks honestly, even if they're wrong. My requirement for people isn't to be correct, but to be honest. It's possible to be honestly incorrect, and a person who is honest is on the path to becoming correct. A dishonestly correct person is just lucky, and there's no hope for them.
 
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qflyer

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Impeach that sonofabitch. He is incompetent.

"...BuT ThE pReSiDeNt DoEsN't SeT gAs PrIcEs...Derrrrrrrrrrp..."
Of course-- he just has the ability to manipulate domestic SUPPLY.






Oh look, I can copy/paste links, too! By the numbers: Oil industry awash in permits, leases while pushing for more drilling - Center for Western Priorities

So maybe the billion dollar, hugely subsidized big oil companies are to blame, not the government? Can you address any of the points made in this article?
 
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Oh look, I can copy/paste links, too! By the numbers: Oil industry awash in permits, leases while pushing for more drilling - Center for Western Priorities

So maybe the billion dollar, hugely subsidized big oil companies are to blame, not the government? Can you address any of the points made in this article?
Permits and leases where the oil ISN'T .... how much good is that?

Think of it like this: Biden admin offers permits and leases on shitty production areas-- KNOWING the oil companies want nothing to do with it. Nobody buys them, and the Biden Crime Administration claims they ARE trying to work with the oil companies, then claim that the oil companies don't want to drill. Bullshit sir.

1657762500187.png

Biden is the single biggest menace to the entire world right now. He is poised to thrust our economy into a death spiral Depression because his idiot economists couldn't figure out pumping Trillions into the economy would cause fucking nine-point-fucking-one percent inflation. Stupid fucks. (And yes-- Trump never should have started that bullshit in the spring of '20). I guess we have 2 more years to see if he will get us into WWIII or not. But hey-- at least we don't have any mean tweets. FFS.
 
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qflyer

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Permits and leases where the oil ISN'T .... how much good is that?

Think of it like this: Biden admin offers permits and leases on shitty production areas-- KNOWING the oil companies want nothing to do with it. Nobody buys them, and the Biden Crime Administrative claims they ARE trying to work with the oil companies, then claim that the oil companies don't want to drill. Bullshit sir.

View attachment 133458

Biden is the single biggest menace to the entire world right now. He is poised to thrust our economy into a death spiral Depression because his idiot economists couldn't figure out pumping Trillions into the economy would cause fucking nine-point-fucking-one percent inflation. Stupid fucks. (And yes-- Trump never should have started that bullshit in the spring of '20). I guess we have 2 more years to see if he will get us into WWIII or not. But hey-- at least we don't have any mean tweets. FFS.
I don’t know what good it is, but you’ll need to prove there isn’t oil there. These are leases that are paid for already. Oil companies don’t just go around picking up leases on land they know won’t produce, do they? The article clearly explains all of this, but it goes against your talking points.

I love how you think Biden is killing America by pumping money into the economy (he is!) and then you just brush aside the trillions that trump put in (spoiler alert: the problems we’re seeing today were started by trump’s horrible administration, and it will get worse thanks to Biden’s)

Oh yeah, that trump money was unfortunate, but BIDEN IS KILLING AMERICA CANT YOU SEE?!?! What a ridiculous double standard.

Do you write articles for infowars?
 
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I don’t know what good it is, but you’ll need to prove there isn’t oil there. These are leases that are paid for already. Oil companies don’t just go around picking up leases on land they know won’t produce, do they? The article clearly explains all of this, but it goes against your talking points.

I love how you think Biden is killing America by pumping money into the economy (he is!) and then you just brush aside the trillions that trump put in (spoiler alert: the problems we’re seeing today were started by trump’s horrible administration, and it will get worse thanks to Biden’s)

Oh yeah, that trump money was unfortunate, but BIDEN IS KILLING AMERICA CANT YOU SEE?!?! What a ridiculous double standard.

Do you write articles for infowars?
They may not know if there is oil there or not, but they DO know where there IS oil, and they are blocked from drilling there due to policies that BIDEN changed in his quest to appease the religious zeal of the Green New Deal wackos.

From this April...
1657764038344.png

Now what the hell are you arguing about?

btw--- Infowars cracked me up. I prefer facts.
 

qflyer

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They may not know if there is oil there or not, but they DO know where there IS oil, and they are blocked from drilling there due to policies that BIDEN changed in his quest to appease the religious zeal of the Green New Deal wackos.

From this April...
View attachment 133460

Now what the hell are you arguing about?

btw--- Infowars cracked me up. I prefer facts.
How exactly did cutting available land leases from 80% to 50% cause gas prices to go up? That 30% trump opened was never even sold, much less had time for companies to set up and start drilling. That process takes years.
So again, how did that order from Biden cause prices to go up? Remember, there are thousands of unused leases, big oil companies are making huge profits, and total US oil production is near record highs, and holding steady at or above the average production under Trump.

This is almost as entertaining as when right wingers say the keystoneXL shutdown caused gas to go up.
 
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How exactly did cutting available land leases from 80% to 50% cause gas prices to go up? That 30% trump opened was never even sold, much less had time for companies to set up and start drilling. That process takes years.
So again, how did that order from Biden cause prices to go up? Remember, there are thousands of unused leases, big oil companies are making huge profits, and total US oil production is near record highs, and holding steady at or above the average production under Trump.

This is almost as entertaining as when right wingers say the keystoneXL shutdown caused gas to go up.
it takes years.... and Biden derailed it hurting future production as older fields are decommissioned.

Keystone? Why kill it? It adds to global supply (since it was intended to be exported) and keeps global prices lower. It was stupid to kill it, and it did pinch future supplies, affecting prices. Of course-- it was killed to appease the Green New Deal idiots. It was an election "debt" that he owed, no matter how many people he hurt in the process.
 

Parley

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They may not know if there is oil there or not, but they DO know where there IS oil, and they are blocked from drilling there due to policies that BIDEN changed in his quest to appease the religious zeal of the Green New Deal wackos.

From this April...
View attachment 133460

Now what the hell are you arguing about?

btw--- Infowars cracked me up. I prefer facts.
Exactly right.
 

qflyer

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Stop feeding the troll!
News flash: person who says “Party D sucks” is not a troll. Person who says “Party R sucks” is not a troll. Person who says “party D and R suck” is not a troll.

I’ve posted data and links to articles that explain what Biden killed. The talking point that those orders are what caused gas prices to go up is simply wrong. It’s a political tool used to keep us fighting one another instead of voting both Rs and Ds out of office. No democrat or Republican will ever get another vote from me, and it’s been that way for a long time now. Wish you other folks would quit voting for the “lesser of two evils” thinking things will get better.

In the meantime, big oil and lobbyists and politicians will keep getting richer and richer. They’re on the same team.
 
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