Has anyone experienced a hike in electricity bills after upgrading to a Smart Meter?

[Arjun]

To be frank, the old stuff is irreplaceable. Better metal, heavier weight, much more longer-lasting. I hope these smart meters will last as long as the analog stuff, but I highly doubt it.

During 2008-2009 when smart meter was being introduced into main stream, many of it was factory defective and giving inaccurate readings but that supposedly is long over with and all the smart meter replaced and regulated now to make sure it give accurate reading.

My house have a smart meter installed and I am happy with it because the electric company now allow me to build a fence toward more closer to the front of the house and I don't need to give the meter reader the right of the way anymore. Only time they would need to call me or email me if they need access to the power pole in the backyard but they been using my neighbor's yard to access it anyway.

They also just recently replaced the water and gas meter with a smart meter too. I dislike the new smart gas meter because they did not replace the gas regulator on the side of house instead they took off the analog meter and replace it with a smart meter. The new smart meter stick out about good 5-6 inches further away from the gas regulator and I have a very small side yard which make it challenging to back up my trailer into the backyard with that meter sticking out further more.

With the old flat analog meter,I would have a good 7-8 inches of spaces between the trailer and meter and now with new smart meter sticking out more which give me like 2-3 inches of space in between to work with when backing up trailer into the backyard

 

[tigerwillow1]

Several neighbors have installed solar and all are disappointed with the performance and savings they are not getting. I know, marketing is responsible, but again, local and regional conditions effect performance dramatically.

I have two ~4KW grid tie systems, one with battery backup, and am totally pleased with the performance because it's exactly what I expected. Maybe the difference is the marketing. I was fortunate enough to be able to look up specs and calculate the expected performance for myself, and my local small-business installer is a total straight shooter. My expected breakeven time is about 20 years. I was not able to totally max out the tax credits and subsidies. For those who can, and don't have a battery backup, the breakeven around me can be as short as 5 years. In hindsight, the biggest benefit for us was totally unforeseen: The battery backed system acts as an almost full-house UPS. When the power goes out we usually don't know it until a neighbor calls to ask if our power is out.

As much as I'm happily enthusiastic about all this, there's a dark side. I'm on the receiving end of a wealth redistribution program that screws the other taxpayers and ratepayers. The other taxpayers and ratepayers helped pay for the initial cost of my system, and every month the other ratepayers are subsidizing my account, which has to be a net loser for the power company. The power company has to maintain the infrastructure to deliver power to my house at my peak load, have the generation capacity available whenever I happen to randomly need it, and gets close to nothing in terms of me paying for it. In the end I not only don't feel guilty about this but even get some satisfaction, because it's the only government redistribution scheme I've even been on the receiving end of. There are hundreds where I've been on the losing end.

 

[Frankenscript]

@tigerwillow1 , that's a really thoughtful and insightful response.


I wouldn't worry too much about being on the receiving end of wealth redistribution. Really, I think these programs are designed to be attractive that way to encourage more people to use them. The more people participate, the more overall production through solar there is, and in time the fewer generating plants need to be built. This is a long term play, with adoption and societal benefits measured in decades not years.

I would strongly consider getting solar (I have a south-facing roof that would be excellent) but my HOA has some restrictions which limit the type and placement of the panels, and the one time I looked into it, it appeared not so good a deal in my particular circumstance. Indiana has done something to reduce the "net metering" benefits from the homeowner side of the equation; I don't know the details but I think after some number of years, the homeowner buys power for X cents per kWh and can only sell it back at something like 1/5 X per kWh. Nice.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I've noticed over the past few years that in more and more states, power pushed into the grid gets credited at a lower rate than power consumed from the grid is charged at. This is of course a perfectly logical and reasonable way to do it. But just as with coronavirus the policies are based more on politics than science. Being in green and socialist Oregon, I still get full credit for what I push into the grid. On an annual basis I produce about 11,000 kWh of which about 6,000 kWh gets pushed into the grid. The consumption rate is about 11.5 cents/kWh, so I'm getting free storage for about $700 worth of power every year thanks to the other ratepayers. I also have a separate solar hot water system which has a somewhat shorter breakeven period than the solar electric system. That's with an electric water heater. I'm under the impression that heating water with natural gas costs a lot less than with electric.

 

[master_tinkerer]

Analog meters aren’t perpetually machines. They are watt motors that drive gears . That disk that turns is using power to turn. As previously stated at very low power they won’t move.
Also utilities are regulated which means meter reader savings can be spent elsewhere if justified to the regulators or returned in kw hr rate justification process.

Also all thermal generation has a incrementally different cost. ( generation output cost is different at every level) So time of use pricing is encouraging conservation AND is a return on cost of production.
I retired from local utility after 38 years in “ generation optimization”. Lots of good understanding in this thread. Some not so good.

Solar connectivity pricing is complex. Example of one solar customer. He ( she ) has the 100 % backup from utility when he needs it, but doesn’t have to pay because the “ sun is out”. Why would a utility build a plant that is only needed when the sun isn’t out.
I know I’m mixing short term with long term. Look at the financial model if every customer goes solar but expects backup.

house power exchange rate for solar installation: the price you pay for power is based on cost of generation and delivery. One solar installation only defers the incremental cost of generation ( local power out goes to neighbors, for example)
In your utility bill, you are paying long term for the capital costs of power plants, transmission line, poles and wires in your back yard ( distribution).
One solar installation hasn’t deferred any of those costs. That’s why most utilities do not pay an equal amount for returned power as what the home owner pays. Could you plan a better system for lots of solar installation from the beginning, perhaps , but the backup obligations carry a heavy financial burden.

 

[master_tinkerer]

I have a friend who works for the local utility in the communications department. There's a "hi line" behind the house I used to live in. He told me that when he checks the substation for that line, which supplies a few towns around there, he has to tap the meters to get a reading. Keep in mind this is a 250KV hi line capable of supplying a few megawatts. The meters start reading at 100KW. To the power company this isn't even worth monitoring.

Yes your friend works with a system that is typical. (Maybe old. Analog meters get stuck and tap will release the needle) They are monitoring the line flow for reliability purposes not financial. They get paid at the “ house” meter not line flow unless with other utility.
But it is probably not a billing exchange point. At billing points, they install higher accuracy metering as justified. Analogy, our gasoline pumps don’t count molecules. Range from megawatts to milliwatts is about the same.
Depending on conductor size, that 250 kv line could carry 100 mega watts.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The other point of mentioning "tapping the meter" was to illustrate how well maintained the system is.

 

[tigerwillow1]

He ( she ) has the 100 % backup from utility when he needs it, but doesn’t have to pay because the “ sun is out”. Why would a utility build a plant that is only needed when the sun isn’t out.

If I were the power company I'd hate me. In the summer I'm a green-energy poster child: Production exceeds usage, even running the air conditioner, so I don't cause any fuel to be burned and my excess power gets sucked up by the neighbors, leading to less power loss and wear-and-tear on the distribution system. On a subzero, zero-production day I'm the power company's nightmare: 19 KW furnace, 4.5 KW water heater, 5 KW dryer, electric oven, maybe a hair dryer, lights, TV, etc., and I'm pulling north of 35 KW with the possibility of being billed for zero usage. Good thing it doesn't cost anything to buy and maintain all the wires and transformers

 

[Trev5]

Over here in the UK, I've so far resisted the Electricity Companies request to install a Smart Meter (Currently not compulsory)

Going back to the opening Post - Interesting that while taking a UK Smart Meter apart this Commercial Trained Electrician advises/shows that Analog meters do measure the power used differently from modern Smart Meters:


They also contain a long life Lithium battery, so guessing that this model of Smart Meter would need to be replaced sooner than a old school Analog meter...?

 

[Arjun]

Which reminds me, time for me to check my energy usage online ever since the install. This will be interesting to see, hopefully better than expected Will update here

Well, that's odd

"Your electricity use went down 76.91%, saving you $643.10."

I think this is partly attributed by the fact that we haven't had a meter reader read the meter since February

I like to keep a log of my electricity usage, thus maintain a bar graph for documenting kW usage comparing last year and this year,



August is when the new meter was in place. I think the increased usage had to do with air conditioning. It had to be the hottest August on record, at least in my books

 

[concord]

My power company sends a monthly report showing my house use vs an efficient house vs a regular house based on similar size house. Several years ago they installed a transmitter on our analog meters so they just drive down the road and pick up the reading without getting out of the car. They have been pushing smart meters lately and would like to control your heat pump, water heater, etc but I say no to that.

It's now cheaper to produce electric using natural gas turbines than coal and nuclear due to the low price for gas. That's why they are closing nuclear plants instead of trying to get an extension license. In the past, natural gas (propane too) was very expensive and only used for peak demand. Usually they didn't have a tech/engineer at the gas turbine plant 24/7, as that would be expensive. However, there was a critical time window to get the turbines up and running to meet the demand. The tech may not get there in time, so the power company would have to purchase more expensive electricity on the market (i.e from Canada). Therefore a "portable device" that had knowledge-based software, would instruct the non-technical person on duty to turn on and trace any issues in starting the turbines.

Trouble with solar and wind, it's not consistent, so power companies need to adjust power from their other consistent sources. There's alot or R&D research to find an efficient way to store energy from solar and wind, such as storing it as compressed air, etc.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Too bad they can't harness the energy from all the hot air produced in Washington, DC.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Interesting that while taking a UK Smart Meter apart this Commercial Trained Electrician advises/shows that Analog meters do measure the power used differently from modern Smart Meters:

He's right on, and what he said applies to the US smart meters too. I've got 2 meters, one residential and one on a pumphouse that's on a commercial rate schedule. Every since the pumphouse smart meter went in, the bill is listing the peak power usage. They're not charging for it - yet - but the camel's nose is obviously under the tent. On the current and voltage relationships, he's talking about measuring volt-amps(VA) vs. watts. Big industrial hookups have had expensive meters that measure VA for a long time, but VA vs. watts hasn't been much of an issue for residential use until lately (in terms of history). The VA reading is almost always higher than the watts reading, and with the switching power supplies in consumer electronics and "green" lighting, the VA measurement for residential can now be a significantly higher than the watts measurement. I'm not aware of any residential billing based on VA usage yet, but I'm expecting to see it someday, and the new meters are needed to measure it.

This is where, I think, I'm supposed to rail against the evil power companies. It's just a simple fact the the infrastructure cost is more related to peak use rather than average use, and the infrastructure and fuel costs are more related to VA usage rather than watts usage. So while I do hate this additional source of RF emissions hanging on my house, I do believe its added measurement capabilities can be used to enable more fair and accurate billing. Whether it will or not is another question, probably based on politics and lobbying.

 

[Arjun]

"...all the hot air coming of Pelosi's @$$" Hair salon approves this message

Too bad they can't harness the energy from all the hot air produced in Washington, DC.

 

[sebastiantombs]

We could use her gas to power a gas turbine in a co-gen plant! Methane is good for that

 

[RickInJax]

In Jacksonville FL, my meter was changed out for a smart meter. I did see a small increase in my power bill. I am able to log in and see my usage by hour of day. And the new system tells the office when there is a power outage and where the outage is without anyone having to call. The meter does more than just track your usage. Brings a lot of advantages to the company and the user.

good luck
rick

 

[Arjun]

After a month of installing, my bill dropped by $10