Hello from WA state

F

fileophile

n3wb
Feb 9, 2022
5
9
WA
Hello, new forum user here and trying to cobble together a budget video security system. I have a working NVR, it is a black box I was given so I don't know maker or model, but I have some low end cameras plugged in via POE and they are working. I had to replace the power supply and after that it works. I have two immediate questions:

1. I need two more cameras, ideally POE ONVIF 4K with IP67 or better waterproofing and long IR distance. These will sit out fully exposed to the weather at the end of a 200 foot CAT5 cable. What are some good value options? Preferably black so they don't stand out against the tree I will be mounting them to. 940 nm IR would be good also, as well as a mounting system that wouldn't require banding the tree.
2. I am also planning to build a Raspberry Pi 4b camera management system, running Debian 11 Bullseye 64-bit. Is there any good Linux camera software available? (I hear about Blue Iris all the time but I think that is Windows only.)

Thanks for any advice.

Steve
 
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Too many unknowns at this point:

  1. What is intended purpose - to IDENTIFY or OBSERVE?
  2. How far from the camera to the subject?
  3. 940nm is almost non-existent in these types of cameras. Some specialty cams you may find, but it may not fit the bill for what you need to use for. Almost all are 850nm.
  4. If you use the existing NVR, not all NVRs are created equal - what is the capacity of the NVR in terms of MP per camera it can handle and bandwidth?
  5. Raspberry Pi can work but many have found after 2 cameras it can be problematic.
  6. Blue Iris/PC combo is a high end better NVR. Once you turn off Windows updates, it is a better NVR. And once you price out a proper NVR that has the MP capability and bandwidth needed, a refurbished PC is usually cheaper.
You can always paint the cameras to match the trees.
 
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fileophile said:
Hello, new forum user here and trying to cobble together a budget video security system. I have a working NVR, it is a black box I was given so I don't know maker or model, but I have some low end cameras plugged in via POE and they are working. I had to replace the power supply and after that it works. I have two immediate questions:

1. I need two more cameras, ideally POE ONVIF 4K with IP67 or better waterproofing and long IR distance. These will sit out fully exposed to the weather at the end of a 200 foot CAT5 cable. What are some good value options? Preferably black so they don't stand out against the tree I will be mounting them to. 940 nm IR would be good also, as well as a mounting system that wouldn't require banding the tree.
2. I am also planning to build a Raspberry Pi 4b camera management system, running Debian 11 Bullseye 64-bit. Is there any good Linux camera software available? (I hear about Blue Iris all the time but I think that is Windows only.)

Thanks for any advice.

Steve
Click to expand...

Welcome @fileophile


"I have a working NVR, it is a black box I was given so I don't know maker or model, but I have some low end cameras plugged in via POE and they are working. "

I need two more cameras, ideally POE ONVIF 4K

You will need to determine more about the NVR and if it can support higher resolution cameras ( 8MP or "4K" if you want higher resolution cameras .. ) Some older NVRs are limited to lower resolution cameras.
 
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:welcome:

If you want good night vision don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size. As an example a 4MP camera on a 1/1.8" sensor will far outperform an 8MP camera on that same 1/1.8" sensor. All cameras need light, either visible or infrared, to "see". The problem becomes the higher the pixel count on a given sensor size the amout of light reaching each pixel gets reduced. Simple physics really.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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Welcome to IPCT ! :wave:
 
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4K has some good cams now, Check these.

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-HDW5842T-ZE-S2 / IPC-T5842T-ZE - 8MP / 4K Vari-Focal Turret

Intro I’m pleased to announce we have another worlds first review to kick off, this time on the new IPC-T5842T-ZE (@EMPIRETECANDY / Andy’s model number). This camera picks up where the 5831 left off and is a natural, potential step up from those already utilizing the legendary 5442. Lets jump...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Review: Dahua DH-IPC-HFW5842E-ZE-S2 - 8MP / 4K Vari-Focal Bullet Cam

Before I get started, I hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday season and a Happy New Year to you all ! Time for my first review of 2022 and there will be many more to come. I’ve decided to try and provide a higher production quality on the video’s I put together for you so will be focusing...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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Thanks for the replies. I spent last weekend running the cat5 out to the camera locations from the NVR. To answer some of the questions posed, the NVR does support 4K (8MP) -- I tested a 8MP camera with it and it worked fine. It was due to that test (and the nice clear picture) that I thought I wanted 8MP all around. But if I can identify people and license plates with 4MP then will go with the 1.8 sensor size advice.

I also am unclear on some of the reviews I've read here. For example, the review of this one () says it is a step up from the 5442 but it's sensor size is the same (1.8). So it sounds like 8MP may be better than 4MP if the sensor size is above some minimum?

I'm planning on giving Andy (EmpireTech) my business and wonder if there is any advantage to buying from his Amazon shop or directly from a web shop? I have Prime so shipping would be free in the Amazon case.

The 5442 and similar cameras look awkward to mount on a tree though. I can jig something up (like an open-front box they could sit inside with the box screwed into the tree, or solder on a female 1/4-20 tpi camera mount for which there are male 1-4/20 tree mounts for game cameras, for example). But open to any good ideas on this front.
 
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fileophile said:
Thanks for the replies. I spent last weekend running the cat5 out to the camera locations from the NVR. To answer some of the questions posed, the NVR does support 4K (8MP) -- I tested a 8MP camera with it and it worked fine. It was due to that test (and the nice clear picture) that I thought I wanted 8MP all around. But if I can identify people and license plates with 4MP then will go with the 1.8 sensor size advice.

I also am unclear on some of the reviews I've read here. For example, the review of this one () says it is a step up from the 5442 but it's sensor size is the same (1.8). So it sounds like 8MP may be better than 4MP if the sensor size is above some minimum?

I'm planning on giving Andy (EmpireTech) my business and wonder if there is any advantage to buying from his Amazon shop or directly from a web shop? I have Prime so shipping would be free in the Amazon case.

The 5442 and similar cameras look awkward to mount on a tree though. I can jig something up (like an open-front box they could sit inside with the box screwed into the tree, or solder on a female 1/4-20 tpi camera mount for which there are male 1-4/20 tree mounts for game cameras, for example). But open to any good ideas on this front.
Click to expand...

Hi @fileophile

Recommend dropping Andy an email and inquiring. I know some e-commerce platforms do charge more, which may work for you ( example some people have Amazon credits .. ) or you may get a discount going another route.
 
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fileophile said:
Thanks for the replies. I spent last weekend running the cat5 out to the camera locations from the NVR. To answer some of the questions posed, the NVR does support 4K (8MP) -- I tested a 8MP camera with it and it worked fine. It was due to that test (and the nice clear picture) that I thought I wanted 8MP all around. But if I can identify people and license plates with 4MP then will go with the 1.8 sensor size advice.

I also am unclear on some of the reviews I've read here. For example, the review of this one () says it is a step up from the 5442 but it's sensor size is the same (1.8). So it sounds like 8MP may be better than 4MP if the sensor size is above some minimum?

I'm planning on giving Andy (EmpireTech) my business and wonder if there is any advantage to buying from his Amazon shop or directly from a web shop? I have Prime so shipping would be free in the Amazon case.

The 5442 and similar cameras look awkward to mount on a tree though. I can jig something up (like an open-front box they could sit inside with the box screwed into the tree, or solder on a female 1/4-20 tpi camera mount for which there are male 1-4/20 tree mounts for game cameras, for example). But open to any good ideas on this front.
Click to expand...

:welcome:


If you are going with a tree mount, you have the right idea, sit inside the box screwed to the tree. Might as well go the extra step and at least make it look like a faux birdhouse. Make it out of WRC, cedar fence pickets are fine and cheap, they will gray and match the tree in a season or two.
 
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I have two 5442T-ZE mounted to trees in my front yard. I used the PFA-130 mounting box to provide a mount and a place to keep the RJ45 connector out of the weather even though they got the full treatment of dielectric grease, self-amalgamating tape and electrical tape. They're both painted "camo" green so they don't stand out as white warts on the trees. Most people, heck probably all people, don't even realize that they're out there.

The cable is in PVC conduit to the base of the trees, then switches to LiquidTite to run up the tree trunk to about an eight foot height. The LiquidTite is mounted with two hole straps screwed to 1/4" thick, 1" wide, aluminum stock. This is to prevent, or at least delay, adjustments being needed due to tree growth which will, literally, crush the LiquidTite or even PVC/EMT/rigid conduit. All of the mounting hardware is either stainless or aluminum and has been painted camo as well so it all blends better.
 
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fileophile said:
says it is a step up from the 5442 but it's sensor size is the same (1.8). So it sounds like 8MP may be better than 4MP if the sensor size is above some minimum?
Click to expand...
Not sure how you got that idea from @Wildcat_1 review:
"In other words you really don’t compromise much quality by moving from (or adding in) a 5442 to 5842 at equal target distance / similar FOV at night. " don't compromise MUCH quality by going to the 5842.
 
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See you did a little arborist work on the tree, too. ;)
 
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