Help choosing this 3 cameras

[Matt-One]

Hello, as i said in my member introduction post i want to change my chinese cameras with dahua cameras

I take a look at this 3 models, (looking also at my money ) but any other advice is appreciated

IPC-HFW2431T-ZS
http://pl.dahuasecurity.com/download/product/20180205/dh-ipc-hfw2431t-zsvfs_datasheet_20180202.pdf

IPC-HFW5241E-S
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/uploads/soft/20190506/DH-IPC-HFW5241E-S.pdf

IPC-HFW4431E-SE
https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/download/DH-IPC-HFW4431E-SE_Datasheet_201707181.pdf

The IPC-HFW5241E-S Model have a starvis sesnsor CMOS but only 2Megapixel, the other 2 have a progressive CMOS with starlight feature (that i think it isn't the same thing of a starvis sensor).
The Starvis sensor is better than the other two? I speak in terms of light, you can have brighter image? (naturally if u have some source of external light )

IPC-HFW2431T-ZS have 20FPS it could be a problem?

I would like to take the 4MPx camera, but as i said any good advice is appreciated

My NVR is a Dahua NVR4208-4KS2.

Thank you for your time

 

[aristobrat]

There's a look of good info about Dahua's Starlight models in the Cliff Notes document in the Wiki area (top blue bar of page). If you get a second or two, browse through that (preferably on a computer, it's not especially smartphone friendly). It also should have a section about Andy/@EMPIRETECANDY. He's an awesome vendor here on the forum that most folks buy Dahua from. He ships worldwide.

Of the three cameras above, the first and last use an older, smaller 1/3" image sensor. That sensor is "run of the mill" and is not known for doing well in low-light situations. Just about every camera manufacturer (down to the cheap Chinese ones) make models that use this sensor.

The middle camera uses a newer, bigger 1/2.8" image sensor that was designed for low-light situations. The fact that it's "only" 2MP also helps it do better in low-light. Fewer pixels on a physically larger sensor means the size of each pixel (on the image sensor) is larger than average, which allows the image sensor to capture more light per pixel. All of this leads to better low-light image quality. You can typically only find this sensor in professional-grade cameras made by Dahua, Hikvision and Ubuiqiti. I haven't seen it in popular consumer models (like Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc) or in the cheap Chinese cameras.

Until this summer (when Dahua/Hikvision came out with cameras that use a newer, bigger 4MP 1/1.8" image sensor), cameras with the 2MP 1/2.8" image sensor were pretty much the only choice for affordable low-light solutions.

Here are some reviews of popular 2MP 1/2.8" Starlight models. I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say these models have been used thousands of times by forum members here. They are also offered in the bullet style if you really like that.

Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Here are some review threads for two of the new (this summer) 4MP Starlight+ models. They're still new (i.e. the firmware doesn't have the SmartIR feature that reduces the IR so that when someone walks up to the camera at night their face doesn't blur out, but Dahua says that's coming) but they seem to becoming the "go to" models as folks do more and more side-by-side comparisons against the 2MP Starlights.

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+
Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

 

[Matt-One]

There's a look of good info about Dahua's Starlight models in the Cliff Notes document in the Wiki area (top blue bar of page). If you get a second or two, browse through that (preferably on a computer, it's not especially smartphone friendly). It also should have a section about Andy/@EMPIRETECANDY. He's an awesome vendor here on the forum that most folks buy Dahua from. He ships worldwide.

Of the three cameras above, the first and last use an older, smaller 1/3" image sensor. That sensor is "run of the mill" and is not known for doing well in low-light situations. Just about every camera manufacturer (down to the cheap Chinese ones) make models that use this sensor.

The middle camera uses a newer, bigger 1/2.8" image sensor that was designed for low-light situations. The fact that it's "only" 2MP also helps it do better in low-light. Fewer pixels on a physically larger sensor means the size of each pixel (on the image sensor) is larger than average, which allows the image sensor to capture more light per pixel. All of this leads to better low-light image quality. You can typically only find this sensor in professional-grade cameras made by Dahua, Hikvision and Ubuiqiti. I haven't seen it in popular consumer models (like Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc) or in the cheap Chinese cameras.

Until this summer (when Dahua/Hikvision came out with cameras that use a newer, bigger 4MP 1/1.8" image sensor), cameras with the 2MP 1/2.8" image sensor were pretty much the only choice for affordable low-light solutions.

Here are some reviews of popular 2MP 1/2.8" Starlight models. I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say these models have been used thousands of times by forum members here. They are also offered in the bullet style if you really like that.

Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Here are some review threads for two of the new (this summer) 4MP Starlight+ models. They're still new (i.e. the firmware doesn't have the SmartIR feature that reduces the IR so that when someone walks up to the camera at night their face doesn't blur out, but Dahua says that's coming) but they seem to becoming the "go to" models as folks do more and more side-by-side comparisons against the 2MP Starlights.

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+
Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Thank you for showing me the size sensors (i saw 1/3" and 1/1.8" in the pdf file, in this case there is no big difference and i didn't care), but 1/2.8" make the difference in terms of light. I know what you are speaking for because i'm a photografer so i know the difference between small sensors big sensors and Megapixel density, but anyway you "illuminated" my brain making me see the size cmos, Thank you.

I will take a look at the posts you link before (frome the PC as i'm doing now ehehhe)

Do you think 2MP are still enough in 2019 for video surveillance? Or it is better more Megapixel renouncing in a more brighter video? I live in front of the street so some light (from the street) come in my garden, of course i don't want to buy the old one sensor eheheh

just one thing i don't understand from this vendor (EMPIRETECANDY), he doesn't sell dahua items? but they are the same model...they are no brand or something similar, but with dahua hardware?

 

[looney2ns]

Thank you for showing me the size sensors (i saw 1/3" and 1/1.8" in the pdf file, in this case there is no big difference and i didn't care), but 1/2.8" make the difference in terms of light. I know what you are speaking for because i'm a photografer so i know the difference between small sensors big sensors and Megapixel density, but anyway you "illuminated" my brain making me see the size cmos, Thank you.

I will take a look at the posts you link before (frome the PC as i'm doing now ehehhe)

Do you think 2MP are still enough in 2019 for video surveillance? Or it is better more Megapixel renouncing in a more brighter video? I live in front of the street so some light (from the street) come in my garden, of course i don't want to buy the old one sensor eheheh

just one thing i don't understand from this vendor (EMPIRETECANDY), he doesn't sell dahua items? but they are the same model...they are no brand or something similar, but with dahua hardware?

Yes he sells all Dahua items, they are the OEM versions simply without the logo on the camera. He also has a few models that he is using his own model #'s on, but they are still Dahua. These are the International versions.

 

[Parley]

Personally I would not get anything less than a camera with a 1/2.8" sensor. I would bypass any camera with a 1/3" sensor. Time and technology has passed them by. Aristobrat laid it out pretty good. If you really want to jump to the head of the line you might consider one of these two.

US $207.79 6% OFF|New Model IPC B5442E ZE 4MP WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera IPC B5442E ZE , free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Also this one but he is currently out of stock but should have some by mid October.

US $240.0 5% OFF|2019 New Arriving cameras IPC B5442E Z4E 4MP WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

 

[Matt-One]

Personally I would not get anything less than a camera with a 1/2.8" sensor. I would bypass any camera with a 1/3" sensor. Time and technology has passed them by. Aristobrat laid it out pretty good. If you really want to jump to the head of the line you might consider one of these two.

US $207.79 6% OFF|New Model IPC B5442E ZE 4MP WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera IPC B5442E ZE , free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Also this one but he is currently out of stock but should have some by mid October.

US $240.0 5% OFF|2019 New Arriving cameras IPC B5442E Z4E 4MP WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera free DHL shipping-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

They have both 1/1.8" sensor... Maybe a starvis sensor is more brighter than this two... (i don't know this two cameras...anyway i saw they have no brand, they are compatible with dahua NVR? can you install dahua firmware or propetary one?)

 

[aristobrat]

Just about everything on Andy’s EmpireTec website is Dahua or OEM Dahua (which is the same hardware/firmware, just no Dahua logo on it) and should work fine with your Dahua NVR.

Back in 2016 when Dahua/Hikvision’s first affordable low-light cameras came out, Sony STARVIS was the most commonly used image sensor (specifically the 2MP 1/2.8” and the more expensive 2MP 1/1.8”). Sony made STARVIS sensors for cameras with 6MP/8MP and while they did better in low-light than non-STARVIS image sensors, they weren’t as good as the 2MP STARVIS sensors. Since then other sensor manufacturers have started making low-light image sensors. So a camera doesn’t specifically use a Sony STARVIS sensor to be good in low-light, and not all Sony STARVIS sensors are great in low-light, so don’t get hung up around STARVIS. The two models @Parley listed may not use STARVIS sensors but do use the best 4MP low-light sensors that folks here have found.

Dahua generally publishes tech specs for their cameras that include a Minimum Illumination spec. Comparing the color 1/30s spec ratings of models can usually give you a good idea of how the cameras compare in terms of low-light performance.

Also there are almost always big review threads in the Dahua forum here for the popular low-light models where owners post pictures/videos and answer questions. There should be a lot of info in those threads to help make a very informed decision about a particular model.

 

[Matt-One]

Just about everything on Andy’s EmpireTec website is Dahua or OEM Dahua (which is the same hardware/firmware, just no Dahua logo on it) and should work fine with your Dahua NVR.

Back in 2016 when Dahua/Hikvision’s first affordable low-light cameras came out, Sony STARVIS was the most commonly used image sensor (specifically the 2MP 1/2.8” and the more expensive 2MP 1/1.8”). Sony made STARVIS sensors for cameras with 6MP/8MP and while they did better in low-light than non-STARVIS image sensors, they weren’t as good as the 2MP STARVIS sensors. Since then other sensor manufacturers have started making low-light image sensors. So a camera doesn’t specifically use a Sony STARVIS sensor to be good in low-light, and not all Sony STARVIS sensors are great in low-light, so don’t get hung up around STARVIS. The two models @Parley listed don’t use STARVIS sensors but do use the best 4MP low-light sensors that folks here have found.

Dahua generally publishes tech specs for their cameras that include a Minimum Illumination spec. Comparing the color 1/30s spec ratings of models can usually give you a good idea of how the cameras compare in terms of low-light performance.

Also there are almost always big review threads in the Dahua forum here for the popular low-light models where owners post pictures/videos and answer questions. There should be a lot of info in those threads to help make a very informed decision about a particular model.

So are you saying me that there are "STARVIS and STARVIS" model? yes, i know about different model sensor with starvis name like IMX334/291 etc... And also you are saying me that the two cameras @Parley post are better, in terms of light, than any starvis sensor with a larger density?

So this camera with an XXX sensor, can be different from a camera with the same table but different sensor??

0.006Lux/F1.4 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)
0.05Lux/F1.4 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)
0Lux/F1.4 (IR on)

or a 0.006LUX/F1.4 can be more brighter than a 0.001Lux/F1.4?

This electronic thing make me crazy

I have to say that the 2 camera Parley wrote, exceed my money so i decided to go for a 2MP camera like this : (tto buy from the vendor you link before )

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/uploads/soft/20181218/DH-IPC-HFW5231E-ZE_Datasheet_20181215.pdf

and at least this one that i can find in my city :

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/uploads/soft/20190506/DH-IPC-HFW5241E-S.pdf

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS TTWO MODEL??

Thank you again

 

[Matt-One]

Well i listen to my monkey on the shoulder that say "Spend that money and take the 4MP model!!" and i answer myself. Looking at reviews, the IPCB5442T-ASE is more brighter than the IPCB5442E-ZE
font : Review: Dahua HFW5442T-ASE 4MP Starlight+

in that post some users says that the Smart IR option is bugged (i hope is a software bug), but Andy is working on it.

What you loose if you take the IPCB5442T-ASE compared to the IPCB5442E-ZE model : the face image capture (that i don't need), the EIS (Electronic Image Stabilizer) that it could be useful in some situation where the camera move for a windy day or other things, one channel allarm and at last the IK10 Vandal proof resistance...

I decided to go for the IPCB5442T-ASE model, they seems to be very similar for hardware.

 

[Parley]

That is a good choice. That camera will serve you well for years to come.

 

[Matt-One]

That is a good choice. That camera will serve you well for years to come.

Thank you Parley for now i have ordered only one of this, i will test it, and then i will take other 3or4 camera, the second will be with the same model (if it respect my expectation with the light condition) the other three could be also a bit less expensive because they will work in low light condition, so with IR always on, in the night)

 

[Parley]

Depending on how much ambient light you have at night you may or may not need the IR on. In my situation I do not have the IR on. You can try it both ways and see what works best for you.

 

[Matt-One]

Depending on how much ambient light you have at night you may or may not need the IR on. In my situation I do not have the IR on. You can try it both ways and see what works best for you.

Yes of course, i will try this various condition when the new camera arrives

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[Pavel-V]

As the first option is lowcost IPC-HFW2431T-ZS I would advice you to consider 2Mpx Starvis version IPC-HFW2231TP-ZS. Compared to 4Mpx friend I dont see extra value. Doing my own test I liked 2Mpx version better. 2Mpx version has got better colours at day, at night its got les noice and comparing picture detail I dont see 4Mpx version doing much better.

IPC-HFW2231TP-ZS:


IPC-HFW2431TP-ZS:

 

[Matt-One]

As the first option is lowcost IPC-HFW2431T-ZS I would advice you to consider 2Mpx Starvis version IPC-HFW2231TP-ZS. Compared to 4Mpx friend I dont see extra value. Doing my own test I liked 2Mpx version better. 2Mpx version has got better colours at day, at night its got les noice and comparing picture detail I dont see 4Mpx version doing much better.

IPC-HFW2231TP-ZS:
View attachment 48599

IPC-HFW2431TP-ZS:
View attachment 48600

aT night it Got less noise because the 4mp camera have a more density in pixel, i don't know how to explain it in english
Anyway, more pixels with a small sensor 1/1.8 mean more noise, for this reason 2mp camera with 1/2.8 sensor (bigger than the last) has less noise and catch more light...

Inviato dal mio SM-N950F utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[Pavel-V]

aT night it Got less noise because the 4mp camera have a more density in pixel, i don't know how to explain it in english
Anyway, more pixels with a small sensor 1/1.8 mean more noise, for this reason 2mp camera with 1/2.8 sensor (bigger than the last) has less noise and catch more light...

Actually 1/1.8 would be pretty big sensor but it is not this case as the IPCs I compared are not equiped with it. IPC-HFW2431TP-ZS has got 1/3 and IPC-HFW2231TP-ZS 1/2,8. Be it as it is 4mpx version has smaller sensor and higher density. Pictures shows whether it is worth it.

 

[Parley]

Neither of the two cameras mentioned above have the 1/1.8" sensor. One has a 1/2.8" sensor and the other has the 1/3" sensor. I will guarantee you the Dahua cameras with the 1/1.8" sensor will be way better. Also those are daytime pictures. Lets see some night time pictures with those cameras.

 

[Matt-One]

Neither of the two cameras mentioned above have the 1/1.8" sensor. One has a 1/2.8" sensor and the other has the 1/3" sensor. I will guarantee you the Dahua cameras with the 1/1.8" sensor will be way better. Also those are daytime pictures. Lets see some night time pictures with those cameras.

Do you know how many cm is the ethernet cable of the camera?