Help/Suggestions on picking the right surveillance system and number of cameras (beginner)

[Fynall]

Hello, I'm looking to purchase a surveillance system for an 8 unit building in Canada (rental multifamily). I was thinking of purchasing this system from lorex although the price is quite expensive and is at my limit.

Amazon.ca

I was thinking of putting 2 cameras in the back of the building, 2 cameras in the front and 4 cameras inside. There are 3 floors and a basement for a total of 4 hallways, so I would put a camera on each hallway. I would like to have 4 audio cameras inside for maximum protection and 4 deterrence cameras outside, especially the parking. Unfortunately, I think these cameras might not be very good at reading license plates but those types of cameras are probably too expensive? I'm basically looking for reasons not to buy this system or suggestions for buying a better system with better quality/options for a similar price or better. I would like to add that I don't know anything about cameras.

 

[wittaj]

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular in these kits, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm 4k fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. His system was a 4K Lorex system from Costco and after seeing that my 2MP cams were blowing his 4K away, he started replacing the cameras with 2MP versions.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night. The 5241E-Z12E is a popular camera of choice for this duty and is around $250.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH:

 

[sebastiantombs]

Given that those cameras have a 2.8mm lens they will not be very useful if you're trying to identify someone day or night and especially at night. I looked at the specs for the camera and couldn't find a sensor size mentioned. An 8MP camera needs a sensor that is at least 1/1.2". I suspect that, at best, these have a 1/2.8" sensor and it is far too small. That size sensor is fine for a 2MP camera but at 8MP it is nowhere nearly big enough.

I'd suggest you read the material in the Wiki, in the blue bar at the top of the page, before you purchase any cameras or system. I also suspect that a system the size of what you are looking at, if it has cameras capable of true low light performance, will be over your budget.

 

[wittaj]

The sensor for those cameras are the 1/1.8" sensor, so a little better, but still not an ideal MP/sensor combination.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Depending on the neighborhood, 8 cameras will be OK for that side of the building, But not the sides or the other end.

Please provide an edited picture and identify where you plan on mounting the cameras. Remember that cameras mounted over 7 ft (2 meters) will not be very good at identifying the bad guy.

 

[Fynall]

Depending on the neighborhood, 8 cameras will be OK for that side of the building, But not the sides or the other end.

Please provide an edited picture and identify where you plan on mounting the cameras. Remember that cameras mounted over 7 ft (2 meters) will not be very good at identifying the bad guy.

I would like to thank everyone for the valuable information. I suspect the cameras will be installed under the balconies probably around 12 ft high, 2 in the front of the building and 2 in the back as I've drawn in the attached pictures with a yellow arrow. I don't think it would be necessary to have cameras on the side of the building unless someone wants to hit the building with a hammer for no reason. What I'm looking for in the front is making sure people throw the garbage correctly and keep the space clean, check that nobody is damaging the front door or the intercom system next to the door. In the back, I would like to make sure nobody throws garbage and the space is clean, and nobody parks illegally in the rented parking lots. Inside the building, there will be light at all times in the hallway and the hallways are 8 to 15 ft long with 1 camera per hallway (3 floors+basement) for 8 cameras total, of course more would be better but I don't want to get terrible cameras just to have a higher quantity.

 

[SouthernYankee]

If some one walks up to the first picture ( front of building) and kicks in the main floor windows will you be able to ID them ?
If some breaks into the cars parked in back will you be able to ID them ?
If someone breaks into the windows on the side of the building will you be able to ID them ?
If some walks up to the cameras inside and smashes them with a baseball bat will you be able to ID them ?

If you complain to anyone that they did not dump there trash or park correctly, you will have Zero cameras working in less than 3 days !

You need to up your level of paranoia about 500% !!

 

[Fynall]

If some one walks up to the first picture ( front of building) and kicks in the main floor windows will you be able to ID them ?
If some breaks into the cars parked in back will you be able to ID them ?
If someone breaks into the windows on the side of the building will you be able to ID them ?
If some walks up to the cameras inside and smashes them with a baseball bat will you be able to ID them ?

If you complain to anyone that they did not dump there trash or park correctly, you will have Zero cameras working in less than 3 days !

You need to up your level of paranoia about 500% !!

These kind of events are extremely rare and not worth the investment of buying the cameras, this is a decent neighborhood. While I love adding a layer of protection to my tenants and would gladly have bank-grade security and even pay security guards, I have limited resources and the main goal of the cameras is to make it easier for me to manage the property and prevent common issues. If the tenants dispose of the garbage poorly, I have to commute for two hours and spend an additional hour to properly dispose of the trash otherwise I will get fined by the city and I won't be able to blame anyone without evidence. If someone tries to destroy the cameras or even break the basement windows, I will still have decent video evidence even if I'm not able to perfectly identify a complete stranger for an FBI investigation . However, I've been managing properties for 2 decades and this has never happened before, I think most people will see the cameras and not try to break in into a random building. I really appreciate your comment though and understand where you're coming from.

 

[looney2ns]

Study everything in this, including all the links.

 

[sebastiantombs]

With the CCP Virus, lockdowns, masks and so on, things have changed dramatically. Be a pessimist, not an optimist.

 

[IAmATeaf]

Whatever cams you decide on I would mount them as close to the corners of the building to get better coverage rather than where you have indicated.

You also want to have 2 cams on the side of the building covering each other. Reason for this is simply to have full coverage so that you can track the person with the cams and the more footage you have from differing angles the more chance you have of possibly identifying the person.