Help the noob.... IR lights mostly

[ryewhiskeybent]

First and foremost, thanks everyone! The wealth of knowledge is truly amazing. I'm a complete IP POE Cam noob however I do work in a somewhat technical arena in the financial services supporting apps and working with programmers to nail down requirments and implement code change in PRD. So.... I'm smart enough to know how ignorant I am.

I've got a BI machine set up, according to the wiki, a few @EMPIRETECANDY refurbs and my cat cable plumbed. Been doing some testing before mounting, trying to get up the curve on both BI and the Dahua cams. No problems getting everything configured, recording, etc.

BUT I am having some issues with the cameras. Day time picture and night time picture with ambient light is no issue.

1st, and most concerning/frustrating is that the IR lights on T3241T-ZAS & HDW5231R-ZE are completely washing out my image. See below.

With porch light on, no IR lights.



Porch light off, good illumination from moon, no IR lights.



IR lights on.



Here I've got them sitting next to one another. The clear image is the camera with IR lights off and the blinded image on is the camera with IR lights on.



2nd, the IR lights on T5442T-ZE seem like they will not turn on.... Firmware?

3rd, the vari focus on IPC-T3241T-ZAS works in BI but doesn't for T5442T-ZE & HDW5231R-ZE. Firmware?

Didn't want to update firmware until I determine whats going on with the night IR image. Maybe its a firmware thing too. My area is really dark, just how I like it and was hoping to leverage IR across the board in my set up.

Not sure if it could be associated with why these cams may have been returned to begin with or an Id10T error on my part. Hoping you all might be able to help me get this figured out or talk me off the ledge. I plan on getting 3 new Dahua cams on BF but was hoping to have these vetted and permanently mounted before I pulled the trigger on those.

 

[wittaj]

That is IR bounce off of something. Almost looks like a dome camera but those are not. Try cleaning the lens. Is this behind a window - if so then it is dirt reflecting IR.

In the camera GUI, change the day/night setting to manual B/W and then take the camera in a dark room and see if you see the red glow from IR.

The issues you have with BI and the varifocal not working in BI isn't firmware in the camera, Some cameras work with it in BI and some don't. Varifocals are supposed to be a set it and forget it, so you really should be doing that from the camera GUI anyway. But if you change the setting to PTZ in BI, it may give you that access to change it.

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind that a static image on default settings always look nice and bright, but will result in motion blur.

You need to dial the camera in to your field of view. Staying on auto/default will never result in acceptable performance, especially at night. Ghost and blur is common with auto/default settings.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

 

[ryewhiskeybent]

Thanks for all that. Yeah I was thinking bounce back too but I’ve tried it in a few different positions and it’s the same. Not behind a window. They are temporary mounted on a ladder while I figure out config and position. Most all the cam setting are default sans the stuff I needed to do for FPS, timestamp, etc from the wikis….

I definitely see the IR lights on the 2 2MP cams. I’ll check on that 5442 tonight. If they don’t come on, is that firmware maybe?

Yep, I’m tacking on setting varicam in the cam GUI. Good to know it might work with some but not all. I did try the PTZ check box.

Concerning your second post, I think I’m tracking on all that but have even thought about getting that deep yet. Just trying to nail down my stable base line for alerts and live monitoring before I try to implement enhancements. Fee like I’m a bit stuck in SIT testing with this basic bug.

 

[wittaj]

No, the IR wouldn't be a firmware issue. Either the camera isn't set to switch to B/W and IR or they are broke, but it is probably it is set to stay in color.

Take the camera into a dark room and see what the the image looks like. Your image is typical of dirt IR bounce back consistent with a dome, but it can happen in a turret if the seal is compromised.

Basically take it into some different locations and see if those spots stay there.

You would be surprised what IR bounce glare can do and places it can reflect back to - broken glass on ground can give some looks like that for example. Your camera seems to high for that, but you will only know for sure if you try it inside in a controlled setting.

 

[ryewhiskeybent]

Ok, def an ID10T error on this one. Bounce back from my temp mount on the 2 2MP camera. Thanks for reiterating.

The 5442 I can’t get the IR lights to come on at all. I guess I need to follow up with Andy on that.

 

[wittaj]

Like I said, it is weird what the IR may bounce off of!

Ok, for the 5442, do 3 factory resets. Since you got a refurb, who knows if the previous person tried to flash a firmware update on it and screwed it up. Many of have found that multiple factory resets can get a lot of things going again. And that will default it back to where the IR should come on if there is a setting issue.

Try that and report back if it doesn't work with the firmware version the camera has.

 

[ryewhiskeybent]

That’s holding down the reset button on the cam for 5 secs while connected to switch?

 

[wittaj]

That is correct, but I would hold it for 15-20 seconds. Listen for the IR filter to click before releasing

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

That’s holding down the reset button on the cam for 5 secs while connected to switch?

yes, do this when camera is powered.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Looks like camera is not focus,make a hard reset should be done.

 

[Flintstone61]

I wish I had reset button for my GF.

 

[ryewhiskeybent]

Did a few resets (wow that’s a tiny button), thought I heard the click but still no IR on the 5442.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Typically, dome cams have a foam ring around the outside of the lens. This is designed to press against the inside of the dome to prevent the reflection of the IR off the inside of the dome surface from interfering with the camera optics. While you have the cover off to clean the inside of the dome, look for the foam ring, and ensure it is seating correctly as you put the dome back on.

 

[Flintstone61]

Its not a model # ending in AS-LED is it by chance?

 

[ryewhiskeybent]

Its not a model # ending in AS-LED is it by chance?

Nope…..