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[al78]

Hi everyone.
I am new here and I have a situation where a friend is trying to use a Reolink camera to read license plates. We installed a 4K RLC 811A and for the most part is working fine. We turned the camera to B&W mode all the time and trying to use a separate IR illuminator at night to get a read on the license plates. The main problem we are having is the tailgates of the cars or the plate lights are blinding the camera causing the license plate section to be just a blob of light. I know this is not a specialized LPR camera but we are trying to see if we can get it to work. Not sure how we can minimize the effect of the tailgate lights on the camera to allow the IR illuminator to blast the plate and make it visible? Would a stronger IR illuminator overcompensate the light of the tailgate and illuminate the plate enough to be visible? We have the IR on the camera turned off, camera is mounted at the same level where a license plate would be from the ground and at an angle, aprox 45 degrees.

Can anyone suggest a different camera that is about in the same range price wise as this Reolink, about 100-150 $?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[wittaj]

It has been shown that Reolink (and most consumer grade cameras) favor nice bright static images at night over performance. So at some point even if you can set shutter settings, the camera will override your input in favor of a nice bright image. This is done by slowing down the shutter and increasing the gain. So then you see what Reolinks are notorious for - ghost blur invisible person images at night and inability to capture plates.

So the difference between a better camera like say a Dahua and a Reolink is that you can set parameters on the Dahua and it will hold. If you set parameters on the reolink that would result in a darker image the algorithm internally says "idiot alert" and it won't let you set parameters that the firmware thinks will result in not displaying a nice bright image. Don't believe me, set the shutter to 1/10,000 at night and the image should be completely black. It won't with the reolink...or any cheap camera. It will override your 1/10,000 shutter and favor a bright image. It is a good test to determine how good the camera is.

Faster shutter is how you get plates at night and take advantage of the reflective properties of the plate. The faster the shutter, the darker the image and the more light is needed and that is how we get plates.

You need a better camera - but you also need one with OPTICAL zoom not digital zoom.

How are away are the plates from the camera? That dictates which camera.

If within 40 feet then this camera is a good choice. If it is within 200ish feet then this camera is the good choice.



You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates, along with a camera that will actually allow you to set parameters and the camera adhere to those settings.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum for more details.

 

[al78]

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.

You make very good points and we kind of knew from the beginning this will not be the right setup for this situation.

Reolink cameras do not even allow to make those changes in the image setup. Their menu is very basic and don't allow for such a specific configuration. We thought that this camera being a 4K will provide a good picture even if we use a little zoom to get a read on the plates. Based on your suggestion with the first camera, MP is not as important in this situation as it is the ability to zoom in optically and change settings for the image capture in night mode.

 

[wittaj]

4K with any of these surveillance cameras is a misnomer - the sensors are still too small and 4K doesn't result in being able to zoom in and get clear images like you see in the movies and TV.

And to make it worse, you got a 4K camera on a 1/2.8" sensor, which is an ideal sensor size for 2MP. For 8MP on that same size sensor you need over 4 times the light to get a comparable image, so they have to play even more games with the video. 2MP will kick that 4K camera all night long.

In fact, most here will say 4MP is the sweet spot.

Especially at night, digital zoom for the most part is useless.

720P and 2MP is all that is needed for plates.

Sensor size and focal length is more important than MP.

Optical zoom is better than Digital zoom. A 2MP camera optically zoomed to a certain distance will beat a 4K camera digitally zoomed to that same distance.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

If you truly want LPR to work, then get a proper cam. There are numerous threads in the LPR forum that talk about this. See these two below.

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[mat200]

Hi everyone.
I am new here and I have a situation where a friend is trying to use a Reolink camera to read license plates. We installed a 4K RLC 811A and for the most part is working fine. We turned the camera to B&W mode all the time and trying to use a separate IR illuminator at night to get a read on the license plates. The main problem we are having is the tailgates of the cars or the plate lights are blinding the camera causing the license plate section to be just a blob of light. I know this is not a specialized LPR camera but we are trying to see if we can get it to work. Not sure how we can minimize the effect of the tailgate lights on the camera to allow the IR illuminator to blast the plate and make it visible? Would a stronger IR illuminator overcompensate the light of the tailgate and illuminate the plate enough to be visible? We have the IR on the camera turned off, camera is mounted at the same level where a license plate would be from the ground and at an angle, aprox 45 degrees.

Can anyone suggest a different camera that is about in the same range price wise as this Reolink, about 100-150 $?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Welcome @al78

"I am new here and I have a situation where a friend is trying to use a Reolink camera to read license plates. ( at night )"

There are valid reasons why we in general do not recommend Reolink, you've just expressed one of those .. Reolink cameras are not very good in low light situations.

 

[al78]

It has been shown that Reolink (and most consumer grade cameras) favor nice bright static images at night over performance. So at some point even if you can set shutter settings, the camera will override your input in favor of a nice bright image. This is done by slowing down the shutter and increasing the gain. So then you see what Reolinks are notorious for - ghost blur invisible person images at night and inability to capture plates.

So the difference between a better camera like say a Dahua and a Reolink is that you can set parameters on the Dahua and it will hold. If you set parameters on the reolink that would result in a darker image the algorithm internally says "idiot alert" and it won't let you set parameters that the firmware thinks will result in not displaying a nice bright image. Don't believe me, set the shutter to 1/10,000 at night and the image should be completely black. It won't with the reolink...or any cheap camera. It will override your 1/10,000 shutter and favor a bright image. It is a good test to determine how good the camera is.

Faster shutter is how you get plates at night and take advantage of the reflective properties of the plate. The faster the shutter, the darker the image and the more light is needed and that is how we get plates.

You need a better camera - but you also need one with OPTICAL zoom not digital zoom.

How are away are the plates from the camera? That dictates which camera.

If within 40 feet then this camera is a good choice. If it is within 200ish feet then this camera is the good choice.



You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates, along with a camera that will actually allow you to set parameters and the camera adhere to those settings.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum for more details.

I really appreciate all the suggestions and education on this matter. When we decided to start this project we did not think it would be this difficult.

We decided to go and order the Loryta bullet ip cam you suggested and will install it in a few days. Since you recommended this camera, are there any specific settings we need to do on it to ensure the best possible outcome?
We are also thinking about installing an IR illuminator to help with the setup, do you think that will help or will cause more problems? From what we have seen different angles and positions of the IR illuminator can make a big difference.

Again thanks a lot for your help.

 

[wittaj]

This is are recommended standard starting settings, but each field of view will require adjustments.

For most the onboard IR is sufficient. My image above is from 175 feet with just the built-in IR on a street with no streetlights.

So I would suggest trying it first with built-in and then only add external if you need it.

The key though is due to the reflective properties of plates, the external IR needs to be as close as possible to the camera and pointed on almost the exact line as the camera or the extra IR will not be beneficial. Someone tried it as a test once and I think after about 2 feet separation between the two, the external IR didn't help.

 

[al78]

Thank you all for your input on this subject.

 

[al78]

I am trying to setup the bullet cam and I am a bit confused with the options. What working mode do I select? Do I set the Day/Night switch and do the settings there or Customized scene? I suspect the Self Adaptive is when the camera works on its own without any customized settings, what is the difference between Customized scene and Day/Night Switch?

Thank you