HOA resources/framework/toolkit

[Bitslizer]

I'm in a new build sub-division that's getting closed to owner take over from builder for the HOA. While our sub division is very nice, unfortunately we live off of a main route where drag racing is not infrequent (can hear the racing engine noise a couple times a week) sometime they turn into our neighborhood as a short cut to bypass the stoplight racing through at high speed, there are other suspicious incident or concern. While I have my own LPR setup it does not cover the main entrances (4x).

I have look at vendor hosted solution like Flock Safety and when spread out to every house the cost is actually bearable around $25- $30 per home per year. Cloud hosted solar powered (if needed) 4G LTE based solutions

But would it be possible to have HOA self hosted solution? This would largely zero out on going service cost. and the basic equipment maybe a one time cost of 1-2 of the annual fee of something like flock

1) This is in IL, for the applicable HOA regulation and privacy etc. need to get the bylaw voted on governing how the recording can be used and accessed. any framework or toolkit?
2) 2 of the entrances we have electricity for signs/flood light, but 2 of them do not. (there's a small possibility to tap the street light, i need to figure out if the HOA is paying for electricity)
3) We don't have a clubhouse or HOA owned building where to put the NVR...? (we do have a church that has their own CCTV system, maybe they are open to hosting the NVR for us.). putting it in somebody's home is probably not an option from a privacy/access standpoint
4) likely Point to Point wireless of some sort TP-Link pharos or similar for the backhaul

any insight or pointers to resources will be greatly appreciated.

 

[sdkid]

I seem to remember reading about somebody doing a fully self-contained system in an exterior-mounted cabinet-- but it was a part of the country that normally did not have really extreme weather variations.

That said-- If you could work out something with the church, that would be the best bet. It could be fully isolated from their network and access secured. Depending on the layout and distance from an appropriate mounting location(s), it sounds like it could be quite the project. I think you are right-- it would be better to do your own rather than go the route of a service.

 

[wittaj]

Guarantee you could do it cheaper sourcing it yourself and have complete control.

@bigredfish is our forum expert lol

 

[mat200]

I'm in a new build sub-division that's getting closed to owner take over from builder for the HOA. While our sub division is very nice, unfortunately we live off of a main route where drag racing is not infrequent (can hear the racing engine noise a couple times a week) sometime they turn into our neighborhood as a short cut to bypass the stoplight racing through at high speed, there are other suspicious incident or concern. While I have my own LPR setup it does not cover the main entrances (4x).

I have look at vendor hosted solution like Flock Safety and when spread out to every house the cost is actually bearable around $25- $30 per home per year. Cloud hosted solar powered (if needed) 4G LTE based solutions

But would it be possible to have HOA self hosted solution? This would largely zero out on going service cost. and the basic equipment maybe a one time cost of 1-2 of the annual fee of something like flock

1) This is in IL, for the applicable HOA regulation and privacy etc. need to get the bylaw voted on governing how the recording can be used and accessed. any framework or toolkit?
2) 2 of the entrances we have electricity for signs/flood light, but 2 of them do not. (there's a small possibility to tap the street light, i need to figure out if the HOA is paying for electricity)
3) We don't have a clubhouse or HOA owned building where to put the NVR...? (we do have a church that has their own CCTV system, maybe they are open to hosting the NVR for us.). putting it in somebody's home is probably not an option from a privacy/access standpoint
4) likely Point to Point wireless of some sort TP-Link pharos or similar for the backhaul

any insight or pointers to resources will be greatly appreciated.

HOA, ideally yes .. the electricity needs to come from the HOA .. and ideally there is some common infrastructure .. light pole? Sign Post? ...

Normally, due to HOAs .. there is always a question of ownership and issues with Karen's taking over, so ideally I would try to limit how much power someone can get with any infrastructure I put in.

This is why sometimes it is better to run cameras from your own home and not setup for the HOA, unless you feel you can control and trust the HOA ..

 

[bigredfish]

Not an expert (thanks @wittaj that $20 is in the mail) but we did it with our small HOA. Easy as it was just one entrance culdesac with 41 homes.

We did two locations, the entrance and the culdesac turn around.

Had electricity at both locations, had internet run to both, installed an NVR in a NEMA enclosure along with a router and the cable modem. No fan, simple vent. Been working fine since 2017 with just one modem replaced. Florida heat and humidity and the occasional hurricane.

Yes we have two monthly bills of $90 ea for the dedicated IPs and internet.

The install costs were steep because we had 14 ft poles set at each location and had a contractor do the initial install, but looking back we could have done more ourselves and saved substantial $

Basically 3 cameras per pole. LPR, overview, and a PTZ.

With Dahua cameras and NVR anyone we want to have access can via the mobile app and a vpn client. I setup a view-only login.
At the end of the day we told homeowners if you see something or have a concern let the board or management company know and we’ll take a look for them. We keep 3-4 weeks of video. Frankly if it happened more than a couple of days ago, it probably doesn’t matter. I think there are 3 that inquired and 2 of them went to the trouble of actually installing the app.

Ultimately someone has to play admin, not practical to allow a bunch of people admin rights to pull video or make camera adjustments.

Another choice to look into is EagleEye managed cloud service. It’s pretty slick but some limitations. They do have a cool web interface everyone can easily log into. No idea on $ as we only used them for about 6 months back in 2016

Examples Entrance Cameras
Overview (2)

Inbound LPR

PTZ - helps get tighter ID shots both directions as well as Exit LPR



Cul-de-sac
Overview

PTZ

LPR

 

[Bitslizer]

We have 2 lighted entrance sign we maybe able to hide the camera behind and supply power but the enclosure for the nvr is something we need to figure out.


The hosted option does offer some benefit in neutrality and access audit tracking and chain is evidence custody

So nothing about resources toolkit framework regarding governance to footage access?

We don't want it to be like when did my kid came home and be a bit more accessible than come back with a subpoena.... Maybe for filing a police report purpose

 

[bigredfish]

With only 2 HOA board members with admin access, that is outlined in the covenants, the community is reminded monthly that if you have a concern or need (criminal ir suspicious activity) just ask and footage will be pulled within 24 hours , instructions on how to view live cameras if you choose, and it’s not trivial to alter timestamps on at least 3 cameras capturing some part of the same scene, we feel that’s good enough. Not sure how much more you would need?

A hosted solution doesn’t change any of that.

We’ve had a few instances of criminal action that we were able to assist the homeowner and LE in with video. A porch pirate, a thief that broke into multiple vehicles , and a burglary. All 3 provided identifying information that were clearly helpful. In each case, because the complaint has to come from a homeowner, we handed the footage over to both they and LE.

We’ve also made clear in the HOA covenants that video is only for criminal or suspicious activity and/or safety concerns. So we would deny a request for “what time did my kid come home?”

 

[Bitslizer]

With only 2 HOA board members with admin access, that is outlined in the covenants, the community is reminded monthly that if you have a concern or need (criminal ir suspicious activity) just ask and footage will be pulled within 24 hours , instructions on how to view live cameras if you choose, and it’s not trivial to alter timestamps on at least 3 cameras capturing some part of the same scene, we feel that’s good enough. Not sure how much more you would need?

A hosted solution doesn’t change any of that.

We’ve had a few instances of criminal action that we were able to assist the homeowner and LE in with video. A porch pirate, a thief that broke into multiple vehicles , and a burglary. All 3 provided identifying information that were clearly helpful. In each case, because the complaint has to come from a homeowner, we handed the footage over to both they and LE.

We’ve also made clear in the HOA covenants that video is only for criminal or suspicious activity and/or safety concerns. So we would deny a request for “what time did my kid come home?”

That's what I was hoping for... Clause and language outlining access. You provide live access to resident? With 300+ lot not sure if that's feasible for us.

 

[bigredfish]

Yeah with 41 homeowners, as I mentioned, we offer to let them view live IF they download the app and install the vpn client. Only a couple have taken us up on it.
Also as mentioned, we have a separate login for them that is view only. It’s low res substream on the mobile app so not a huge concern.

The EagleEye solution (or comparable) is probably better for a large group. Cost may be a factor, but it simplifies things.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah with 41 homeowners, as I mentioned, we offer to let them view live IF they download the app and install the vpn client. Only a couple have taken us up on it.
Also as mentioned, we have a separate login for them that is view only. It’s low res substream on the mobile app so not a huge concern.

The EagleEye solution (or comparable) is probably better for a large group. Cost may be a factor, but it simplifies things.

Did you give them an unique login for accountability or just a generic login that they would all use?

 

[bigredfish]

No just generic. Unique users would be better I suppose but they really can’t hurt much and I know and trained both.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, so whether it is two users or 300, with only one generic username and password it would be easy to give people view only access. Then the requirement to have openvpn adds another layer of preventing folks from posting the user and password for anyone to see

 

[bigredfish]

yeah pretty minimal risk. And Im in it every day so if something was amiss I'd probably notice.

Most of them wont even bother to install the app, people are lazier than you think and most just dont care.