Impressed with HFW5442E-ZE

[CamCrazy]

I am well acquainted with the 5231 cameras and also 49225 PTZ which is low light king even compared to 5231, I think this has something to do with IR power and also better quality lens on the 49225.

Anyway, I got a 5442 with 2.8 lens installed a few days ago and been pretty impressed so long as the bit rate is kept high on VBR. Then I put a HFW5442E-ZE up and even on brief testing this thing looks impressive. Seems very sharp, quality doesn't suffer too much even when zoomed and the IR power looks to be very good, even compared to a POE+ powered camera. If someone put a gun to my head and asked me which Dahua to buy I would say 49225 followed by the HFW5442E-ZE. I need some more time with the latter but liking what I see, for the money I'd take one of these over a turret all day long. Personal preference I know, also the bullets are more bulky and less subtle. Not quite sure why Dahua decided putting a huge gland on the wall boxes for these was a good idea, seems like the size they used would suit a power cable rather than Cat5/6.

As a side note I would install 49225 PTZ's everywhere, budget and aesthetics aside! highly recommended if you have the need or desire

 

[handinpalm]

I was always a fan of using VBR on the 2MP cams. When I upgraded things to the 5442 (4MP), I found using CBR with 8129 bit rate yielded better results, along with a lot of users here. May want to give that a try.

 

[CamCrazy]

I was always a fan of using VBR on the 2MP cams. When I upgraded things to the 5442 (4MP), I found using CBR with 8129 bit rate yielded better results, along with a lot of users here. May want to give that a try.

Thanks, I've used CBR in the past but new to the 5442 and been running them VBR with custom bit rate of 15000 since they will go up to 20000 from memory. Seems to work well but I will play with CBR also I have accepted that the 4MP cameras will need higher bit rate, which is fine, tweaking required no doubt.

Should have also noted that I use half of my cameras in total darkness so the additional IR power on the HFW5442E-ZE is a big bonus.

 

[CamCrazy]

Is anyone running above the reference bit rate of 8192 on the 5442 cameras, I was experimenting earlier and pretty sure the quality advantage is visible if I use say 10000-12000, is this my imagination

Would like to use VBR on one in particular, but sadly the vehicles moving into the scene are too quick for the bitrate to increase in time, so have switched it to CBR.

 

[Griswalduk]

Hi CamCrazy

I'm learning my way and attach a screen of my current video settings on 1 of my cameras. I have it to CBR and maxed out. On the big screen I noticed a difference in increasing the bit rate so ended up just leaving it at max for now.

Like you I'd be keen to get others input on this.

I'm sure there's a "sweet spot" and I'm also sure I'm not on it lol

 

[sebastiantombs]

Bit rate can be a balancing act. The CPU in these cameras isn't exactly an i7 latest generation. The result is that the AI features, IVS, SMD, people detection and vehicle detection, can be handicapped because the CPU is busy processing all that video.

 

[wittaj]

Most of us have found that this series needs 8192 and CBR at a minimum.

Some may have a field of view that can get by with less or VBR, but not many.

 

[Griswalduk]

Is there any "good way" to balance. The method I'm using at the moment has involved adjusting most of the camera video settings to those recommended on here i.e. codec, fps, iframe etc.

Then i started out with the other recommendations ( notably wittaj but many others thanks btw ) and started out tweaking exposures, gain 3rd

I reviewed the resultant nvr recordings ( pausing and zooming in on sections ) on the big screen. Repeating each time adjustments were made.

During this process i found that increasing CBR increased the detail when zoomed in. In the end i just left it at max 20192. The bandwidth on the nvr5216 is showing 170 Mbps left out of 320Mbps so it would seem there's ample room on this side of things. Note. 8 cams running

@sebastiantombs i have yet to set up ivs, tripwires, smd and other advanced features. It could very well struggle when i get around to and it's something i hadn't thought of.

That's why I'm here though. The good advice and knowledge that yourself and others share is invaluable.

 

[wittaj]

Everyone of us have different eyes and monitors. And our bias and perception come into play as well. If higher bitrate results in better quality, then subconsciously we will "see" better improvement that isn't there.

I take a video clip and different bitrates and then play them back for people that know nothing about this and ask them which video clip looks better, A,B, or C. In most instances you will find that the highest bitrate doesn't result in the one selected.

There are diminishing returns going above a certain point.

What I have done is digitial zoom into something and then change the bitrates until I notice a substantial increase/decrease in quality and let that guide the bitrate. Unless you have a lot going on in the field of view, 8192=12,000ish is probably the sweetspot for this camera.

And then as @sebastiantombs points out, then make sure once you start using AI and other things that the camera is still performing and responsive.

 

[Griswalduk]

I think I'll adjust 1 of my cams too 12288 and let it run for a day and compare with the previous days footage. I can review and drop further as you say to get to that point.

@CamCrazy are you using similar methods or do you have other ways that you prefer? How's the results so far?

 

[paul@austins.tv]

I have nothing better to do!
Just viewed your video settings. Your "I" Frame is 16 rather than 15 to match 15 FPS.

 

[bigredfish]

Everyone of us have different eyes and monitors. And our bias and perception come into play as well. If higher bitrate results in better quality, then subconsciously we will "see" better improvement that isn't there.

I take a video clip and different bitrates and then play them back for people that know nothing about this and ask them which video clip looks better, A,B, or C. In most instances you will find that the highest bitrate doesn't result in the one selected.

There are diminishing returns going above a certain point.

What I have done is digitial zoom into something and then change the bitrates until I notice a substantial increase/decrease in quality and let that guide the bitrate. Unless you have a lot going on in the field of view, 8192=12,000ish is probably the sweetspot for this camera.

And then as @sebastiantombs points out, then make sure once you start using AI and other things that the camera is still performing and responsive.

^^^^
This

I find the sweet spot for me to be 10240 CBR with little noticeable improvement beyond that.

 

[Griswalduk]

I have nothing better to do!
Just viewed your video settings. Your "I" Frame is 16 rather than 15 to match 15 FPS.

Oops well spotted. I'll correct

 

[CamCrazy]

Hi CamCrazy

I'm learning my way and attach a screen of my current video settings on 1 of my cameras. I have it to CBR and maxed out. On the big screen I noticed a difference in increasing the bit rate so ended up just leaving it at max for now.

Like you I'd be keen to get others input on this.

I'm sure there's a "sweet spot" and I'm also sure I'm not on it lol

Sorry, been busy today and only got back to this. Settings look fine apart from that 15/16 mismatch I am currently on 12000 CBR and will experiment in the days ahead. I've got a very keen eye and am super picky with quality, I want the best I can get all day long where possible. As @sebastiantombs mentioned these cameras are working hard if you are also using their other features such as motion, IVS and so on. Maybe if Blue Iris is doing this work then the camera can afford to push bit rate up.

I have some 30-40mph cross frame traffic on one 5442 so will test it hard in the days ahead, checking for detail, tearing and general quality. Will report back with findings but I sense from comments above that 10000-12000 could be a good ballpark. If you can get away with VBR then that is great and will help record times when the scene is quiet. I can't quite manage it on the 5442 which has cars passing through, it doesn't come up to speed on the bit rate quick enough sadly.

Is it just me or do these 5442's somehow look a bit artificial compared to the 5231's, almost over processed, maybe it's just the sensor differences? Seriously impressive so far though regardless!

 

[Left Coast Geek]

I dunno, IR has always looked plastic to me, but that doesn't bother me, I've seen enough of it to know what is what..

I want to run an IR light tape around my eaves and shut off all the camera illuminators. heh. suppose it would be smart to turn them all on again if there was any alarm

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Maybe get a full color model IPC-color4K-X, always color

 

[Left Coast Geek]

I would do night color if I had soft indirect lighting evenly distributed around my drive and walk ways. but as an amateur astronomer, I like the dark, and i'm hesitant to add lights to ruin that.

 

[CamCrazy]

Colour would be great during the night if possible but certain locations I can only manage IR, sadly. So far my biggest quality boost as usual is keeping the gain low, lower ISO and less noise. Trying to control this setup during dusk is difficult though so I tend to resort back to shutter priority or pushing the gain back up to around 50, also 3D noise probably 12-15. Balancing act as always.



Just a mention that I am still suffering blown highlights with these 5442's, it is annoying, the 5231 series do not suffer this barely at all. I am trying HLC today on low to compensate, it isn't ideal, I don't like running any kind of backlight processing but

 

[bigredfish]

Bigger sensor allowing more light in.

I find HLC to be the least problematic of the backlight compensator settings.

 

[CamCrazy]

Bigger sensor allowing more light in.

I find HLC to be the least problematic of the backlight compensator settings.

In theory bigger sensor and more pixels so not much in it without doing the maths. Blown highlights is more an exposure/metering issue, I will play some more but currently I would say it is a processing algorithm somewhere which needs tweaking. Could just be a 'feature' of the sensor, not sure.

No doubt on the HLC being least invasive, glancing at todays samples it is looking good with low HLC. I find this model switches into black and white a lot sooner than the 5231's also, very early days for me with these.

Reviewed both the HFW5442E-ZE and HDW5442TM-ASE footage from today with bitrate set to 12000 and low HLC set on both, worked out well, shutter needs to be quite fast to freeze vehicles but results speak for themselves. Night images are so far looking impressive. Might even try the 5442 ZE where I currently have a very remote HFW8232E-ZE, the latter is my best non PTZ camera for low light, situated in total darkness with no artificial light - 49225 PTZ still trumps them all in the dark though but not a fair comparison!