Install camera in existing light housing?

[Quadari]

Hi - my first time installing cameras around the house. I'm planning on installing a camera above the garage door to monitor the driveway area. Above the garage I currently have a carriage light and below that a light mounting housing out of which is sticking a motion detector (which triggers the light at night). See photos. (I am planning on keeping the light and the motion detector. Unless somehow I can get the camera to act as a motion detector also?)

Would it be possible to use the existing housing that the motion detector is in as an install base for a small bullet-style camera? (I would hope so!) I could definitely move the motion detector to one of the other knock-out holes if it makes the most sense to have the camera come out of the center of the mount.

Anyone have experience or advice regarding this? Thanks.

 

[TonyR]

Just be aware that a motioned-activated light can "blind" a camera for the first few seconds of it's activation until the camera can adjust to the sudden burst of light. Besides, motion-activated lights do little to discourage perps...it just helps them see better.

I'd go with a dusk-to-dawn visible LED light with a camera, and it will likely work better if the light is located above the camera as in your current set up: light where one's at now, cam where the motion sensor is.

Are you able to run a CAT-5e/6 Ethernet cable for a POE camera at the location?

If not, consider the floodlight combo sold by @EMPIRETECANDY.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Fixed-Focal-Floodlight-Floodlights-IPC-WL46A/dp/B0BXWSFQFK?ref_=ast_sto_dp

EmpireTech IPC-FL46N 4MP Fixed-focal Floodlight Network Camera Built-i

4-MP 1/3" CMOS image sensor | Built-in microphone and speaker | Active alarm with built-in 110 dB Siren | Built-in dual floodlights | Have 4 floodlight modes | Supports max. 256 G Micro SD card | IP65 Protection

empiretech01.com

 

[wittaj]

You would also have to take the glass out because infrared would bounce off it and blind the camera.

And plus one on motion activated light!

motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

Or this example that completely missed the perp:

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

 

[Gimmons]

You can get a blank plate to fit that junction box at the hardware store. Mount the camera base to the plate and try it. One test is worth a thousand theories.

 

[TonyR]

One test is worth a thousand theories.

Are you suggesting that a motion-activated light can adversely affect a camera when it cuts on at night due to motion is a "theory" ?

 

[Gimmons]

Not at all. Just saying in the time we’ve taken to discuss it, he could have mounted it and seen if it’s an actual problem for his situation.

 

[Quadari]

Thanks all!

I don't have the camera yet - it's in the mail. But was wanting to see if anyone had experience trying to mount a camera on those sorts of mounting brackets. I.e., if someone had tried it and it was a total fail, then I would have to rethink how to mount the camera. Anyway, will try to get it mounted sometime in the next week-or-so and will report back!

To the other questions - yes, can get CAT6 there for PoE.

I realize that the motion activated light may mess with the camera and that motion activated lights don't "deter perps" as much. But the light is more of a convenience thing for me so that I can see when coming home at night.

 

[TonyR]

If it's a bullet camera that's coming, consider my post below. If the PVC blank won't fit your box, I'm sure Hubbell/Taymac has a metal one that will.

Bullet Camera Mounting Box

Bullet Camera Mounting Box Image 1: The pigtails on bullet cams are usually flexible thermoplastic, not meant for the outdoors and cannot stand up to the elements. On IP bullet cams, the furnished weatherproof boot for the RJ-45 is so bulky you'd have to drill a 1" hole for it to pass through...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Gimmons]

You might think about getting a one or two watt led bulb for the lamp and just leaving it on all night. You would be able to keep the camera in color mode, and I’ve read, at least, that lights are a deterrent.

 

[Quadari]

If it's a bullet camera that's coming, consider my post below. If the PVC blank won't fit your box, I'm sure Hubbell/Taymac has a metal one that will.

Bullet Camera Mounting Box

Bullet Camera Mounting Box Image 1: The pigtails on bullet cams are usually flexible thermoplastic, not meant for the outdoors and cannot stand up to the elements. On IP bullet cams, the furnished weatherproof boot for the RJ-45 is so bulky you'd have to drill a 1" hole for it to pass through...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks! Looks like that might be exactly what I need, so I'll check it out.

 

[Teken]

Just wanted to chime in for the usual (Safety Nancy) feedback. If the motion sensor is 120 VAC ensure the Ethernet cable is well isolated from the high voltage line in that box if they are going to coexist!

It’s illegal and not to code per NEC / CEC to have high & low voltage in the same box unless a purpose built box is used and the wiring is appropriately spaced and insulated.

They make dedicated JB that have a partition wall isolating both high / low voltage wires.

In the worst case scenario you can cover the Ethernet cable with plastic tubing as it enters the box while leaving at least 24 - 72” outside the box and have a few inches in the box.

Insert a plastic plate separating the high / low voltages wiring.

If the high voltage (120 VAC) is being removed completely ignore everything above!

 

[Quadari]

Interesting, thanks. I'm curious as to the reason for the code regarding separating the Ethernet and 120V lines. Is the worry that they'll short and then the Ethernet cable will have 120V over it which could fry lots of other things / melt / catch on fire? Or is it a different worry?

 

[TonyR]

Interesting, thanks. I'm curious as to the reason for the code regarding separating the Ethernet and 120V lines. Is the worry that they'll short and then the Ethernet cable will have 120V over it which could fry lots of other things / melt / catch on fire? Or is it a different worry?

I would think mainly so a cable (Ethernet) that is supposed to always be low voltage would be VERY unlikely to have 120VAC on it which could endanger (electrocute) someone not expecting such and therefore handling accordingly.

 

[Gimmons]

Can’t speak to the code/danger element, but anytime a/c power is near a signal cable, there’s a danger of signal interference. They say not to run the cables next to each other and to cross at right angles if necessary.

 

[Teken]

I would think mainly so a cable (Ethernet) that is supposed to always be low voltage would be VERY unlikely to have 120VAC on it which could endanger (electrocute) someone not expecting such and therefore handling accordingly.

This ^^^

In the past almost all motion sensors were 120 VAC. As time went on they transitioned to 5-12 VDC.

Today, almost anything can be had depending upon the use case and requirements. Again, if the sensor is being moved out completely and the camera is the only thing going inside the box nothing to worry about!

 

[TonyR]

Can’t speak to the code/danger element, but anytime a/c power is near a signal cable, there’s a danger of signal interference. They say not to run the cables next to each other and to cross at right angles if necessary.

Yes, this is a consideration as well although not necessarily the reason for lack of separation and/or isolation being against code......the code is more about safety.