IP cameras with 2way Audio

[Mike K]

I have not purchased may cameras yet, or cables, or much of any other of the components for my system. Of 8 cameras that I eventually will have I would like just one to operate inside my tractor bay with real time video AND audio. I have looked at some youtube videos on the subject but they leive a lot to be desired.

What I'd like to know; is there anything special on the hardware side of things, (camera cables, connectors, switches, etc), that is necessary to make sure it works well? I will be using BI SW.

Anyone with experience with their own audio/video system?

 

[zythros]

Um well I assume your going to buy a kit of 8 stationary cameras which may or may not be using Ethernet cable for connection... Probably depends on the cheapest price for the desired video quality made in china cheapos.

If you get those and don't get them with a IP65 or above waterproof rating don't put them outside without being under a awning or other rain barrier even if they say waterproof in my experience no there not and even if you put a awning over them outside humidity/water vapor will still gather on the inside of the lens from the morning dew/heavy rains giving you a very poor blurry picture they also don't last near as long like 6 months long outside.

Depending on whether you go with TVL cameras or IP camera's makes a difference in wiring some IP camera's not all come equipped with PoE or Power over Ethernet which gets rid of the need for a extra wire for power. However your regular TVL seimeise cables are two seperate cables combined by a thin piece of plastic in the middle so you can pull them apart.

Depending on how far you want to run them and if you want to run them via trees/bury them makes a big difference here the largest continuous seimeise cable I've found that was well priced on the internet was 125 ft I had cams as far as 400 ft here and there was no way I was going to bother with wireless and batteries or solar panels or worrying about loss of signal in bad weather conditions.

As a safety feature these Seimeise cables which employ the regular D/C push in pull out plug for the power cable make this cable shorter then the BNC video cable, thus if the wire is ran through high tension tree environments lazily done without attaching fasteners for the wire to the trees it is nearly impossible to tape the two ends together without the D/C power slowly working its way out, or just breaking because of snow/ice load the cables aren't that stout.

Burying w/o conduit causes possible condensation problems between connections. The solution is Ethernet cable with PoE or a power source near the camera location, it takes a hell of a lot more abuse as it is 5 small 20 gauge wires stranded around each other into one and I'd buy it in a 1000' box and put the Ethernet connections on myself now you can now Christmas tree up up your place to yer heart's content or bury it w/o conduit just beware running it over/sharp rocks.

Be wary buying Audio equipped camera's as some vendors put in a microphone but all you can hear is the camera's internal power coil's high pitched frequency this is more a concern for offbrand PTZ camera's with high power demands. A cheap $15 mic can be had off the internet there generally RCA cables for the audio part with a standard D/C power input. You can get a cheap RCA to standard 3.5mm audio jack converter and plug this into your computer then set up blue iris to receive the feed(i've not personally done this) but I assume it's doable

I used 100' of BNC wire for this and bought the appropriate BNC to RCA male plugins there is a good bit of definitely noticeable static from this and I may buy some more Ethernet cable/baluns to make the run or place it somewhere closer.,, Ethernet has a lot less noise than BNC but I've never had a problem with BNC video picture getting static at 400+ feet.

Edit: Also there is some noise just from my computer's built in soundcard this is standard the laptop was especially bad you can hear it from enabling a microphone through windows sound control settings even with nothing hooked to it there's still a faint hiss. You can correct this with aftermarket soundcards

Edit: just did a test with 6' of wire instead of a 100' looks like it's the microphone emitting the extra noise not the cable run :/ can't recommend this one then http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Sen...id=1463787365&sr=8-1&keywords=cctv+microphone or the 3.5mm audio jack to rca female adapter.. though I doubt it.. I'm hoping to use a audio mixer to nullify that specific sound frequency.

 

[Mike K]

Um well I assume your going to buy a kit of 8 stationary cameras which may or may not be using Ethernet cable for connection... Probably depends on the cheapest price for the desired video quality made in china cheapos.

My default system design is to shop for each of the eight IPcams individually according to the location needs. I also desire POE network connections. The only under ground is to another building via a fiber optic trunk line between two separate switches. Multiple Vlans with one VPN and one for the public for free WiFi. Id really like to have just one cam with the 2way audio so I can interface with my farm hands when I'm not there.

Also I want HD cams with min 5mp, some with PTZ. All relatively short Ethernet cable runs, not more than 60'. All outdoor cams must be waterproof. However the 2way audio cam would be one of the indoor cams.

I have a lot of bad guys that want all my equipment. I've been robed several times.

If you get those and don't get them with a IP65 or above waterproof rating don't put them outside without being under a awning or other rain barrier even if they say waterproof in my experience no there not and even if you put a awning over them outside humidity/water vapor will still gather on the inside of the lens from the morning dew/heavy rains giving you a very poor blurry picture they also don't last near as long like 6 months long outside.

Depending on whether you go with TVL cameras or IP camera's makes a difference in wiring some IP camera's not all come equipped with PoE or Power over Ethernet which gets rid of the need for a extra wire for power. However your regular TVL seimeise cables are two seperate cables combined by a thin piece of plastic in the middle so you can pull them apart.

Depending on how far you want to run them and if you want to run them via trees/bury them makes a big difference here the largest continuous seimeise cable I've found that was well priced on the internet was 125 ft I had cams as far as 400 ft here and there was no way I was going to bother with wireless and batteries or solar panels or worrying about loss of signal in bad weather conditions.

As a safety feature these Seimeise cables which employ the regular D/C push in pull out plug for the power cable make this cable shorter then the BNC video cable, thus if the wire is ran through high tension tree environments lazily done without attaching fasteners for the wire to the trees it is nearly impossible to tape the two ends together without the D/C power slowly working its way out, or just breaking because of snow/ice load the cables aren't that stout.

Burying w/o conduit causes possible condensation problems between connections. The solution is Ethernet cable with PoE or a power source near the camera location, it takes a hell of a lot more abuse as it is 5 small 20 gauge wires stranded around each other into one and I'd buy it in a 1000' box and put the Ethernet connections on myself now you can now Christmas tree up up your place to yer heart's content or bury it w/o conduit just beware running it over/sharp rocks.

Be wary buying Audio equipped camera's as some vendors put in a microphone but all you can hear is the camera's internal power coil's high pitched frequency this is more a concern for offbrand PTZ camera's with high power demands. A cheap $15 mic can be had off the internet there generally RCA cables for the audio part with a standard D/C power input. You can get a cheap RCA to standard 3.5mm audio jack converter and plug this into your computer then set up blue iris to receive the feed(i've not personally done this) but I assume it's doable

I used 100' of BNC wire for this and bought the appropriate BNC to RCA male plugins there is a good bit of definitely noticeable static from this and I may buy some more Ethernet cable/baluns to make the run or place it somewhere closer.,, Ethernet has a lot less noise than BNC but I've never had a problem with BNC video picture getting static at 400+ feet.

Edit: Also there is some noise just from my computer's built in soundcard this is standard the laptop was especially bad you can hear it from enabling a microphone through windows sound control settings even with nothing hooked to it there's still a faint hiss. You can correct this with aftermarket soundcards

 

[nayr]

Recording Audio w/built in Mic's is probably the best solution, if you want two-way consider an external VoIP solution.. you just need a conference room speaker phone that will auto-answer when you call it.. latency is much better w/VoIP.

if your doing like a BI NVR you could just do a soft-phone through the PC..

I have VoIP phones in most rooms in the house, they ring when cell phones ring.. but I call them from a cell phone and type in a secret extension and all the phones will auto-speaker phone into a conference room and I have house wide two-way audio... thats how I do it.. its more of a home intercom that you can use your cell phone with (handy when your sick in bed).. this was a totally custom solution and requires a bit of VoIP wizardry.. use has been minimal, mostly when someone is injured and requires care.. or we are out of town and want to call the pets into a room with a camera (kids room) for a headcount

 

[Mike K]

you could just do a soft-phone through the PC..

What is this? I will have BI and a PC. Not a NVR

 

[zythros]

Got rid of that static by finally getting the Realtek HD audio driver installed and working it has a option for Noise Suppression thank goodness my motherboard had the Realtek soundcard built in or I could of been buying expensive software to fix the problem.

A simple search reveals
''A softphone is a software program for making telephone calls over the Internet using a general purpose computer, rather than using dedicated hardware. The softphone can also be installed on a piece of equipment such as a workstation, portable computer, tablet or even a cellphone and allows the user to place and receive calls without requiring an actual telephone set.[SUP][1][/SUP] Often a softphone is designed to behave like a traditional telephone, sometimes appearing as an image of a phone, with a display panel and buttons with which the user can interact. A softphone is usually used with a headset connected to the sound card of the PC, or with a USB phone.[SUP][2]''
[/SUP]
So basically it's a digital phone.. via a computer I looked at how one would go about wiring a good old ''Hard Phone'' I got some with the circle dial you turn with your finger. Too complicated involves resistors/capacitors open/closed circuits you could do it as a hobby but it'd be time consuming... That's about as far as my audio knowledge goes as I don't have any 2way mics. I'd like to know how one would run a phone/ethernet cable from a computer to a phone instead of computer to computer.. that's just too resource demanding for me I wouldn't worry much about latency if it's audio camera>wired connection>computer but if it's audio camera>internet>computer that could be a issue

 

[nayr]

Softphone is like Skype app or something.. you just need one that can be configured to auto-answer when you call it..

 

[Mike K]

Softphone is like Skype app or something.. you just need one that can be configured to auto-answer when you call it..

would Blue Iris support this?

 

[nayr]

it would be separate, you'd use it like a VoIP PA system, it dont really need to be integrated with BI.. there are bunch of free VoIP Softphones out there, do some research and play with em.. I cant help you much for windows, but its been done.. many times.

just because you have a hammer in your hand (BI) dont mean everything you see is a nail (IP PA System).. you already have a BI server, im sure it can handle running a softphone that only you know the number/address for.

 

[nayr]

Did a bit of GoogleFu for you, and found a OpenSource one called ekiga that has a Windows Build and supports this feature:

http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Manual#Call_auto-answering

If you put a SIP Softphone on your smartphone, you can usually do internet calling between devices without a provider... otherwise, I personally use https://www.flowroute.com/ as my prepaid VoIP Provider (they provide a telephone #)

You'd basically just wire up a normal set of computer speakers and mic to your NVR, then they will work as a speakerphone when you call it.. or go all out baller and use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Jabra-SPEAK410-Speakerphone-Skype-other/dp/B007SHJIO2

 

[Mike K]

Did a bit of GoogleFu for you, and found a OpenSource one called ekiga that has a Windows Build and supports this feature:

http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Manual#Call_auto-answering

If you put a SIP Softphone on your smartphone, you can usually do internet calling between devices without a provider... otherwise, I personally use https://www.flowroute.com/ as my prepaid VoIP Provider (they provide a telephone #)

You'd basically just wire up a normal set of computer speakers and mic to your NVR, then they will work as a speakerphone when you call it.. or go all out baller and use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Jabra-SPEAK410-Speakerphone-Skype-other/dp/B007SHJIO2

OK it looks like the audio is mainly a software issue. My main concern for now is to determine if there is any special cabling I might need to make an audio camera conection. I keep seeing these camersa with 2 way audio like this one:



but they are all wireless. My system is POE and I don't know if that sort of camera is even available for a hard wired system? I don't see any on line.

 

[zythros]

http://www.amazon.com/HIKVISION-DS-...d=1463938555&sr=1-7&keywords=2+way+audio+cctv
No reviews though to gauge how good it actually works


..I'm really surprised that the audio part of ''security system'' is so neglected when you hear something you look in that direction. There seems to be no one interested in products like this. You could buy 2 pairs of microphones and speakers and route them through your computer if you have enough input/output ports.. You'd probably need a after market sound card for this as I've found out it looks like Realtek's Software with their soundcards can do this.

If there's a power source at your tractor bay like I imagine then it'd be doable as long as the audio signal would make that distance to your computer without distortion and that I can't guarantee. In my case I've got a 3.5mm jack to BNC with a 100ft seimeise BNC/power cable connected to the mic and there seems to be no distortion from wires.. The hissing is in the mic itself as its cheap and the soundcard (also stock cheap) with realtek software it disables the hissing sounds perfect but it removes constant sounds it perceives as static which are like the low hum of a diesel engine going down the road... it'd work great for talking though..

there's also apartment style Microphone/speakers http://www.amazon.com/BOGEN-LUADS-A..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=1S8Q761BX2W1N9EZD6J4

It looks like all in all Nayr's softphone solution would be superior

 

[Mike K]

http://www.amazon.com/HIKVISION-DS-...d=1463938555&sr=1-7&keywords=2+way+audio+cctv
No reviews though to gauge how good it actually works

Some nice features on this cam. everything but PTZ

The multiple cable interfaces suggest that the audio connection my need cables. I see one Ethernet plug and a bunch of other unknowns? I wonder if that is either or all?

 

[zythros]

Those are RS-485 or RS-232 cables (possibly both) the one to the left of the ethernet cable I think is a 3.5mm audio jack it could also be a D/C plug in specifically for the mic/speakers although you'd think if it's PoE they wouldn't do that but you never know I've had cheapo Chinese cameras that had a built in mic running off camera's power supply but you plug it in and it puts a big enough drain to cut the IR lights by 3/4 power and it wasn't even PoE so clearly the mic was a gimmick but it was same price as without it.

 

[pozzello]

one of those green connectors is for audio in/out. the other is alarm in/out.
this has no built-in mic, so you'd use an external one (and an external speaker).
But the cam will multiplex the audio onto the RTSP video stream over the network connection.
BI can handle it.

 

[Mike K]

one of those green connectors is for audio in/out. the other is alarm in/out.
this has no built-in mic, so you'd use an external one (and an external speaker).
But the cam will multiplex the audio onto the RTSP video stream over the network connection.
BI can handle it.

Do you think this speaker phone http://www.amazon.com/Jabra-SPEAK410.../dp/B007SHJIO2 would work with this cam http://www.amazon.com/HIKVISION-DS-2...way+audio+cctv?

My other concern would be if there are ports of that type (keystones), that would work in my patch panel. There are two audio ports on the PC but I don't know what type they are yet. The description on the web site (Lenovo M900) does not elaborate on the issue.

 

[nayr]

no, and the reason I've been trying to move you away from built in 2-way in IP Cameras is the latency.. you get ~1s latency with RTSP Audio (its synced with video, and IP cameras are not realtime), dont know what the return latency will be because Ive never hooked up a speaker output, but it will be more.. now your talking about satellite phone kinda delays, it works.. only after everyone adapts to the delay and gives enough pause not to step on eachother.. you've seen the results on world news.

VoIP on the other hand, its as low latency as normal phones.. most door intercom-cams side channel all audio over VoIP to avoid these problems, its kinda obvious your not home if there is a delay.

 

[Mike K]

no, and the reason I've been trying to move you away from built in 2-way in IP Cameras is the latency.. you get ~1s latency with RTSP Audio (its synced with video, and IP cameras are not realtime), dont know what the return latency will be because Ive never hooked up a speaker output, but it will be more.. now your talking about satellite phone kinda delays, it works.. only after everyone adapts to the delay and gives enough pause not to step on eachother.. you've seen the results on world news.

VoIP on the other hand, its as low latency as normal phones.. most door intercom-cams side channel all audio over VoIP to avoid these problems, its kinda obvious your not home if there is a delay.

OK I get the picture. But if I'm going to use VoIP, it is a separate audio circuit that has nothing to do with the video. That is to say, the audio is not synced with the video at all. Do I have that right? In witch case, it would be the same as using cell phones for the audio?

And, why is it that some IPcams can record audio with the video but can't play it real time as it is being watched? I must have missed something?

 

[nayr]

correct, it would be like using cell phones, infact you can use any phone to call.. except you have an auto-answering speakerphone in the shop/office so you can use it as a PA system.

by realtime, I mean.. realtime, you can view your cameras in near-realtime.. but encoding digital video and audio, then transferring it over a network, then decoding it for playback.. takes somewhere from .5s-1.5s depending on cameras largely.. the delay is largely unnoticeable because audio/video are normally just one direction and your not trying to interact with people on screen.

 

[Mike K]

correct, it would be like using cell phones, infact you can use any phone to call.. except you have an auto-answering speakerphone in the shop/office so you can use it as a PA system.

by realtime, I mean.. realtime, you can view your cameras in near-realtime.. but encoding digital video and audio, then transferring it over a network, then decoding it for playback.. takes somewhere from .5s-1.5s depending on cameras largely.. the delay is largely unnoticeable because audio/video are normally just one direction and your not trying to interact with people on screen.

OK I think I've got it. A speaker phone on each end, Audio cables, and some software. Thanks