IPVM Releases Phone Version of Calculator

JustAnotherCameraGuy

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New member here...planned on giving the IPVM Calculator a try for some of Andy's cameras. Working on a design for the new home. Take it from an engineer....90 seconds is not enough time as a new user to the tool to even determine if it's worth spending $199 on. I would be willing to pay a monthly fee (cancel any time) to use the tool. I think most folks are willing to pay, but the annual fee doesn't make a lot of sense for the average homeowner. Please consider offering an option for paid short term usage.

You could even consider charging a fee for the app, and after paying that fee the user has access for a reduced number of cameras unless they purchase a "pro" subscription or whatever term you like.
 

john-ipvm

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annual fee doesn't make a lot of sense for the average homeowner
That makes sense to me but IPVM is not particularly built to serve the average homeowner. We do not get many homeowners using IPVM and that's likely a reflection of where our coverage focuses (commercial / enterprise, etc.). We could theoretically implement a less expensive plan with a reduced number of cameras (in line with your suggestion), but I am not sure it would attract enough usage to even justify the time setting that up and the complexity that would add in showing more plan options to everyone.

I understand where you are coming from, we're just not well set up nor do I see how we could be well set up to serve the average homeowner. I am not trying to convince anyone here, just trying to explain the constraints and challenges we are operating under.
 

cam26

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That makes sense to me but IPVM is not particularly built to serve the average homeowner. We do not get many homeowners using IPVM and that's likely a reflection of where our coverage focuses (commercial / enterprise, etc.). We could theoretically implement a less expensive plan with a reduced number of cameras (in line with your suggestion), but I am not sure it would attract enough usage to even justify the time setting that up and the complexity that would add in showing more plan options to everyone.

I understand where you are coming from, we're just not well set up nor do I see how we could be well set up to serve the average homeowner. I am not trying to convince anyone here, just trying to explain the constraints and challenges we are operating under.
I appreciate the response and somewhat understand, but your calculator operated for a long time without the time constraints. If services for the average homeowner are not what you are going after, then why impose the time limit at all? This is especially true since you don’t even offer a reasonable paying option for that group of users, who are people like us here on this forum. It’s not like you’re pushing us to a pay option, you’re basically just telling us to pound sand. Is it simply because you no longer want average homeowners using your product?

I’ll note that you WERE set up to serve the average homeowner just fine, until you made the decision to push them out.
 

JustAnotherCameraGuy

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That makes sense to me but IPVM is not particularly built to serve the average homeowner. We do not get many homeowners using IPVM and that's likely a reflection of where our coverage focuses (commercial / enterprise, etc.). We could theoretically implement a less expensive plan with a reduced number of cameras (in line with your suggestion), but I am not sure it would attract enough usage to even justify the time setting that up and the complexity that would add in showing more plan options to everyone.

I understand where you are coming from, we're just not well set up nor do I see how we could be well set up to serve the average homeowner. I am not trying to convince anyone here, just trying to explain the constraints and challenges we are operating under.
It was pretty obvious that your target audience is professionals. I can also understand not wanting to offer the service to an average homeowner since there is a learning curve and I would suspect a good portion of folks just don’t care about the technical side of things. However,it might make sense to offer a special user account to ipcamtalk members - not advertised to the general public. Generally speaking, I suspect most folks here are either technical enough or willing to learn to use the tools. You could just offer short term paid access to the tool without any support on your end.
 

john-ipvm

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then why impose the time limit at all?
It is to encourage professionals to pay for using the IPVM calculator. Without a time limit, even professionals can do various designs and calculations indefinitely. Since we implemented the change, the weekly number of saved calculated cameras rose 30%+ and the trend continues unabated.

might make sense to offer a special user account to ipcamtalk members
Possibly, what would ipcamtalk provide in exchange? To provide some further context, it costs money to provide the Calculator, most specifically Google Cloud Maps API charges (over $1,000 per month).

You could just offer short term paid access to the tool without any support on your end.
At what price point? And how many people would sign up? I am trying to figure out how we support this as a business and that's why if we can't I've recommended the JVSG online tool, others have mentioned using Google Maps directly (for free), etc.
 

bp2008

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@john-ipvm My thought is a one-time payment of $10 or $20 or something for calculator access, but that is of course dev work on your end and I honestly doubt many people would pay for it.
 

bp2008

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For that matter, I suspect just requiring (free) authentication to load the calculator could significantly reduce the fees to google. As it is with a time limit I'd bet you are seeing higher fees.
 

tuvow

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@john-ipvm My thought is a one-time payment of $10 or $20 or something for calculator access, but that is of course dev work on your end and I honestly doubt many people would pay for it.
I'd be happy to pay a small fee, but $199 for personal use is simply too expensive.
 

tech_junkie

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I'd be happy to pay a small fee, but $199 for personal use is simply too expensive.
Its a little high, especially when pros wouldn't have a need for this.
a long time ago, I made some cardboard triangles to represent my view angles until I could judge a 2.8mm Vs 3.6mm camera in a spot without it.
 

john-ipvm

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especially when pros wouldn't have a need for this.
There are lots of "pros" but we see lots of "pros" using and paying for IPVM's calculator or competitors such as JVSG or System Surveyor.

I made some cardboard triangles to represent my view angles until I could judge a 2.8mm Vs 3.6mm camera in a spot without it.
Pros are using our tool or competitors to e.g., have the exact model's AoV precalculated on a map, to see what it looks like on street view, satellite view, to calculate cable lengths, to print out design documents to give to prospects, installers, etc.
 

samplenhold

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Possibly, what would ipcamtalk provide in exchange? To provide some further context, it costs money to provide the Calculator, most specifically Google Cloud Maps API charges (over $1,000 per month).
So the first five pros that pay for membership pay the Google charge for one month. So 60 members pay for the year. You must have way more than 60 members. You have provided it for free for all these years. What prompted the change now?

Personally I have found the views glitchy and the example plates and faces are not close to what I see on my cams. I have found it not all that helpful, really.

So if IPCAMTALK is not your company's interest, then why do you even bother coming here?
 

john-ipvm

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You have provided it for free for all these years. What prompted the change now?

...

So if IPCAMTALK is not your company's interest, then why do you even bother coming here?
I learn from feedback from various people.

As for not giving it away anymore, as you mentioned we did so for years and we still give 90 seconds but we want to reward those who value our work by paying for it.
 

Firefighter

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Doesn't limiting the number of cameras for non members do exactly that? The reward for paying for IPVM is in addition to the information theres also an unlimited use of the calculator in multiple factors, Camera, Time, Information saved etc.

By limiting the number of cameras to 4 you did exactly that. Professionals can't do much of anything with 4 cameras on ipvm without the full access and information as you mentioned.

Oh well. What's the next best thing aside from ipvm for us homeowners?
There's gotta be another option that is open source.

I can't find my location and find a camera with 90 seconds. lol


I professionally installed alarms/cctv for 5 years and our company never used ipvm. You walk around with the client and basically can tell what you need.
You either need a 90* cam or a varifocal. We did both residential and commercial. I tried selling the boss on a ipvm subscription but couldn't.
 

Dave88LX

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I too am in the "technical homeowner" category. A few years back I started playing with the free version of IPVM, which I learned about from this site.
I had determined that playing with one camera was neat, but, wanting to geek out, save, add all the cameras, see overlap etc., decided to spring for the $200 paid subscription. Then forgot to cancel. And forgot to cancel again. LOL...my fault...finally cancelled.

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Now I go to check a couple things out to add some new cameras, just trying to work with a single camera, and find the time limit useless to actually figure anything out.

I'm $600 into a useful website that I used for a few months, and can no longer even play with a single camera.

I think the extra two years I paid and did not access the site should be able to help cover a better version of a "free" or reduced-price service. :lol:

My thoughts on a couple options, since it sounds like bringing back "1 camera unlimited time" is off the table.
  • 1 camera, but with a reasonable amount of time at least to evaluate and get things sorted
  • Reduced-price paid subscription for a single camera
  • Watch a 30-second ad in order to access the single camera
  • Monthly subscription @ $17-20... most people could probably plan what they need in a month, buy another month in the future if there are some big changes to make. That's an easier price to swallow than $200.

It's a cool tool, very useful, but not $200 useful to the homeowner.
 

samplenhold

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IPVM has specifically stated that the homeowner cam geek is NOT their target audience. They do not care to entertain any changes to their business model. And that is fine. It is after all their business.
 

Mark_M

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I too am in the "technical homeowner" category. A few years back I started playing with the free version of IPVM, which I learned about from this site.
It's a cool tool, very useful, but not $200 useful to the homeowner.
I made an account with IPVM and took advantage when it gave a month free ~2 years ago.
It certainly is awesome information, but for me as a University student it doesn't make sense to spend the money on IPVM since I don't have a job in security systems installation.



A complaint I see people comment is that IPVM is still reviewing Hik/Dahua. Criticizing that IPVM is still testing NDAA banned tech for 'extra readers' or that their membership base would drop if they stopped.
IPVM testing Da/Hik is awesome so that people are informed of technology advancements made.

I scroll through Baidu often to see what new tech is about.
That's how I found out about TP-LINK making such big cameras now; TP-Link is innovating better than Hik/Dahua?
IPVM has it's place for installers, and them charging less would undercut the effort they spend. I'm totally fine with being a spectator viewing the occasional 'free' article.
 
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