Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance?

Chust

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Right now i'm running a TP-LINK TL-860 Advanced 8-port Cable/DSL Router, 10/100 mbps.

In Hikvision configuration I have bit rate set to constant. I have noticed I have to lower Max bit rate to 4096. Smoothing to 40 or cam locks up.
I just added 3 to my 4 today and noticed a couple was hanging and dropping out till I changed to those settings.

Blue Iris is set direct to disk, so it's not CPU and ram is low.
I did do a update to BI today to..

I have to admit, I definitely am a NEWB with both IP cams and Routers. It's not rocket science:D.

All 7 are running and look good. But, i'm not sure if i'm getting the Maximum Performance out of them.. I will be adding at the least 5 more and was going to get a switch. But, if a Gigabit Router is needed first then I will have to get both.

Some advice would sure help!

- Chust
 
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Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

The short answer= ​NO!
 

n4gry

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

The TP-LINK TL-860 will do just fine if you are wired to it (10/100T). Even if you set all cameras to 6 megabit the total is only 42 Megabit, well within the 100 it can do. Where you might have problems is if you are using the wireless to connect. Just my 2cents worth.....
 

Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

Thank you much!
 

bp2008

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

It is not necessarily required, but I would highly recommend using gigabit networking gear for everything except 4-port PoE switches which can be 10/100 for cost-effectiveness. Then as long as you don't daisy chain other switches off a 10/100 switch or 10/100 router, it will be hard to run into any network bottlenecks.

(Edit: You can of course keep a 10/100 router; just connect a gigabit switch to it and connect all the high bandwidth stuff to the gigabit switch instead of the router. Most notably, the Blue Iris PC and any PoE switches should connect to the gigabit switch.)

Even with direct to disc enabled, Blue Iris has relatively high CPU usage. If it is above 80% regularly it may be a problem. If you ever hit 100% CPU usage on the system, that will definitely cause problems in the video. RAM usage above about 2.4 GB starts to get unstable as Blue Iris is still a 32 bit program. I doubt you are close to that level of RAM usage with just 7 cams.

Even if you don't have this problem now, you will likely run into the limit of your CPU as you add more cameras. To reduce CPU usage, the first and best thing to change is the video frame rate. It has an almost linear effect. i.e. 30 FPS will demand nearly twice as much CPU as 15 FPS. Here are some videos comparing camera frame rates side by side so you can "see" the difference



Notice how 15 FPS looks nearly as smooth as 30 FPS. Beyond about 15 FPS, you gain relatively little from higher frame rates. I actually run most of my 20 cameras at 3 or 6 FPS to keep CPU usage at acceptable levels.

When you reduce frame rates, you have to change the frame rate in the camera's web interface, not just in Blue Iris. First you set the frame rate in the camera. Then, in Blue Iris, set the frame rate to be at least equal to the frame rate you set in the camera. This is especially important when you are using direct to disc, as we recently learned that having the frame rate set lower in Blue Iris will cause it to drop frames which causes ghosting and stuttering in recordings (applies to direct to disc only). In some cases a camera will occasionally send a slightly higher frame rate than you told it to, so you may need to actually set the frame rate a few FPS higher in Blue Iris than you set in the camera, to prevent corrupted recordings. Blue Iris' automatic frame rate adjustment probably takes care of this for you; but I don't use that option so I could not say.
 

Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

Thank you so much for the great write up/advice. I will definitely be getting a gigabit router, since i'm looking at adding more HIK's. As far as CPU, It's a AMD FX-8350 8 Core, water cooled, and not OC'd. It's not an issue @ 40-50% for BI. I have it all running perfect now but the time stamps. They pause, speed up, and aren't exactly in sync with each other at all times. I'm recording straight to disk and am using HIK's web interface/component for the time stamp. It's just annoying! I never noticed it until the 3.6.4 BI update, still does it with 3.6.4.1. Like I say, it's just annoying. Thanks for takeing the time explaining gigabit and I definitely will be purchaseing one. Any recommendations? Remember i'm all hard wired not wireless! Thank You!!!
 

bp2008

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QUA6RA

I have been using that model of Trendnet 8 port gigabit switch for years. No problems.

TP-Link also has an inexpensive line of gigabit switches that I trust.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ELA5W4

With one exception: I used to run a 16 port gigabit unmanaged switch from Trendnet and I occasionally had problems with it. Some ports would stop passing traffic until the switch gets power cycled. This happened to my Trendnet every few months until 6 months ago I replaced it with a 16 port gigabit unmanaged switch from TP-Link. This worked fine until just this morning when I moved my NAS from a back closet into my server room where this switch resides. The switch inexplicably stopped passing traffic on some of the ports, just like my Trendnet had done in the past. My first clue was when my NAS that had just been plugged in never showed up on the network. Then my Web Power Switch rebooted the modem and router because it thought the internet was down. Turns out the Web Power switch was not accessible over the network either. After power cycling the switch, everything began working normally again. I don't know if I zapped something with static electricity in just the wrong way or what. You can't walk two feet without picking up static electricity in my house this time of year and it raises hell with my A/V equipment. Touch something on one side of the room and the projector loses video sync on the other side.
 

nayr

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

each camera will need roughly ~10Mbit bandwidth at full quality; with 7 cameras you should consider putting your NVR on a Gigabit port because the feeds alone are going to take up ~70% of the available bandwidth on a 100Mbit NVR, leaving very little for file transfers, remote desktop, etc.

The cameras individually will never need a Gigabit port to them selves, but your Network Video Recorder would be wise to have a Gigabit port... There are plenty of old 100Mbit PoE switches with one or two Gigabit uplink ports that work well for IPCamera networks.

Its not a requirement for you to move forward; you are within any wired limitations.. but you would need to proceed with caution, if you try to copy a recording off the NVR to another computer you could saturate your network and have issues with your recordings dropping frames while you were doing this copy.
 

Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

Wow! Good point! "you could saturate your network and have issues with your recordings dropping frames while you were doing this copy". The computer i'm useing for a NVR does have a Gigabit port. I bought that cheap router thinking awh a couple ip cams would be enough. NOPE!!! I'm addicted!!!


 

nayr

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

Time = Money; its not like Gigabit is brand new on the block and your going to throw money at being a first adopter.. 100Mbit network does 12MB/s, thats slower than all but the very cheapest USB/SD cards now days.. and if you have ever tried to copy dozens of GB to USB disk you know it takes a long time... Gigabit tops out at 120MB/s and thats much closer to the speed of your HDD's maximum throughput.. So, copying a file over network in a Gigabit network is nice and quick, like copying a file from one local HDD to another... Copying a file on a 100Mbit network is like copying off a slow memory card, if you only have 30Mbit (3.75MB/s) free bandwidth on your NVR grabbing a file off it will feel like your downloading it over the internet, and at the file sizes IPCameras generate you could find your self waiting all night to get a few hours of video off, while wishing you had spent the extra money on a Gigabit net.

Ive been working on computer networks for over 20 years, I hate to think how much of my life has been wasted watching progress bars slowly tick away.
 
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Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

"Network Engineer - Just because I am paranoid dont mean there not out to get me."

Amen!!!
 

networkcameracritic

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

I had about 7 cameras when I started having network issues with 100Mbps routers. Yes, if you add up speeds and feeds it makes logical sense that it will work, but when you factor in noise at night when bitrates go up, you factor in remote viewing and such and I was maxed out with 7 and getting dropped frames and not smooth recorded video. Going with gigabit switches made a big difference. I now have grown to a 24port Netgear smart switch (12 are PoE) + an 8 PoE port ZyXel 2108PWR for the garage with gigabit uplink, it's running smooth, no problems. Switch prices have dropped and the Netgear 24 port managed PoE Gigabit switch (desktop but comes with ears for rack mounting) was well under $300.
 

Zxel

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

If you are concerned about your PC smoothly recording your video smoothly a good tool to use is a DPC checker (http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml). This tool is also excellent for tuning an HTPC computer.

Your CPU usage could be low, your available RAM high and yet you could still have issues effecting recordings and video playing. The DPC checker is an excellent tool for video recording/playing, it takes into account the REAL TIME recording/playing capability of your computer.

As foir the gigabyte switch issue, it is uneeded for the cameras, however, your backbone should be gigabyte not only for the bandwidth but because of latency. Normally 10/100 POE switches are fine for the cameras (as mentioned by many above), however, they should be connected to a gigabyte router switch that your computer(s) are connected to. As inexpensive as gigabyte switches/routers are nowadays it makes no sense to run the backbone of your internal network at 10/100 speeds.

If you can I like POE switches that have 10/100 POE ports and at least one gigabyte uplink port (to connect to your gigabyte switch/router - i.e. your *backbone*). I'm sure there are new camera models that have gigabyte ports, however, most common is 10/100, so connecting it to a gigabyt switch will still give you 10/100 speed anyway to the camera. This is why I like POE switches with 10/100 POE ports and a gigabyte uplink, you are assured every camera has FULL access to the 100mbit bandwidth available on each POE port (because the switches fabric is based on gigabyte speeds).

You need at LEAST 20% of the network bandwidth to be *unused* as it is needed for overhead and the like, that is if you want everything to work smoothly.

Hope you like the DPC tool, it has been very helpful to me in tuning a PC.
 

Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

Thank you Zxel!
You did a great job of explaining that!
You actually saved me a lot of time asking questions!:)
I will be adding the DPC tool to my arsenal!
Anyone got router suggestions?
Again, Many Thanks!
 
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johngalt

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

From my experience, theory and practice produce different results. Everything seems to play nicer when you use gigabit. If anything, a gigabit path between the switch, storage, and client will do wonders. You can usually find pretty good deal on a 10/100 switch with a couple gigabit ports.
 

bp2008

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

From my experience, theory and practice produce different results. Everything seems to play nicer when you use gigabit. If anything, a gigabit path between the switch, storage, and client will do wonders. You can usually find pretty good deal on a 10/100 switch with a couple gigabit ports.
I agree completely.

Consider 50 Mbps of constant network traffic. That would work on a 100 Mbps network, but it would work better on a 1000 mbps network.

On a 100 Mbps switch, 50 Mbps is a 50% load. Packets will be delayed regularly (admittedly, for short periods of time) and maybe even dropped if a buffer happens to fill up. The switch(es) might use more electricity and generate significant heat. Maybe the cheap consumer-level switch isn't designed to handle this level of constant load, and it fails prematurely.

On a gigabit (1000 Mbps) network, that same traffic is only a 5% load. Each packet makes it to its destination faster, data buffers are likely larger, and delays are shorter and less frequent.

That said, I still do recommend 10/100 PoE switches because they are often much cheaper than gigabit PoE switches. And as long as you only use them for cameras and connect them directly to gigabit gear, you really aren't losing anything.
 

Chust

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

I am now running everything gigabit, router and switches. The results are great!
 

johngalt

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Re: Is A Gigabit Router needed to run 7 Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I at maximum performance

Consider 50 Mbps of constant network traffic. That would work on a 100 Mbps network, but it would work better on a 1000 mbps network.

On a 100 Mbps switch, 50 Mbps is a 50% load.
Actually, the total capacity of the switch is even much higher. A low end TP-Link 24 port 10/100 switch will have a total switching capacity of 4.8Gbps. A switch with a couple gigabit links to the storage server and client will circumvent that bottleneck. I haven't really seen in PoE switches like this, they sure would come in handy for security applications.
 
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