Issues with PTZ5A4M-25X /w spotter cam and auto tracking

[TheMajesticKing]

I’ve been looking for a good low light medium zoom Auto Tracking PTZ to use within Blue Iris. Naturally, most people on this forum recommend Dahua PTZ cams so I recently purchased the EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X. This is a fantastic PTZ overall but I’m having a really difficult time getting it to perform as I would expect. The hardware is amazing but the software seems to be the challenge. My goal is to use my Color4K-T180 as a spotter and have the PTZ move to a preset where it should begin auto-tracking with the subject in view. I’ve gotten this to work to a certain extent but it’s not been very reliable. I’m having 2 issues:

1. I can’t figure out the best way to setup the spotter to have it move the PTZ to the proper preset. The spotter often forces the PTZ to move while it’s actively Auto-tracking which causes it to stop tracking. I currently have a few alert actions set up to move to 1 of 8 presets when a person is detected in one 8 zones on the spotter. This is all done within blue iris. I have the alert set to trigger when “New zones/sources only (additive). I’ve also tried “exclusive”. It also seems to be moving sporadically instead of moving the expected zone. (it might be a bit behind?) Is there a way to prevent the alert from forcing the PTZ to move while it’s actively tracking?

2. When the PTZ5A4M starts tracking it often loses tracking pretty quickly. It loses people as they walk behind cars or if they walk by a mailbox it will often focus on the mailbox and lose the person. I tried increasing the Tracking Target Ratio and it only helped a little. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that I can’t get the spotter to move the PTZ to the proper spot reliably. A 3 second dwell time before giving up on the target seems to be too short.
As far as I can tell the PTZ5A4M doesn’t have an adjustable dwell time so it gives up on tracking fairly quickly. I was also expecting much more customization with regards to Person tracking sensitivity but there are barely any options/settings for this.

I’ve read through the thread below several times but I fail to see how setting up IVS rules on the T180 will prevent the issue of the PTZ moving to a preset in the middle of tracking forcing tracking to stop.

Thread 'Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris'

Mar 12, 2022

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to.

Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and spotter cam #2 is triggered, it would then take the PTZ off of spotter cam #1 tracking and move to the preset for spotter cam #2.

Now with BI 5.5.6.0, you can go into the PTZ tab in the Camera setttings and go to the preset that you want to have priority and check the "cancel alerts when the camera is...

• wittaj
• Replies: 167
• Forum: Customizing

• 
• 

I can’t believe I’m saying this but I had better luck with my Reolink Trackmix and I’m actually considering reluctantly going back to it in spite of its significantly inferior zoom and night time image quality.

 

[wittaj]

Check the cancel alerts when the preset is active box and that will override a spotter camera calling it while that preset is in operation.



Without video and screenshots of your settings, it could be anything.

Are you on default/auto settings or gave you dialed them in? Things like gamma and contrast adjustments can impact its tracking ability.

Yeah we wish an option to change dwell time existed.

 

[TheMajesticKing]

Check the cancel alerts when the preset is active box and that will override a spotter camera calling it while that preset is in operation.

View attachment 204446

Without video and screens screenshots of your settings, it could be anything.

Are you on default/auto settings or gave you dialed them in? Things like gamma and contrast adjustments can impact its tracking ability.

Yeah we wish an option to change dwell time existed.

I have that setting on for every preset other than the HOME preset but it doesn't seem to prevent it from still triggering the PTZ to move while it's actively tracking. I think that's my biggest issue. I'll try to get some screenshots of my settings.

 

[TheMajesticKing]

Check the cancel alerts when the preset is active box and that will override a spotter camera calling it while that preset is in operation.

View attachment 204446

Without video and screenshots of your settings, it could be anything.

Are you on default/auto settings or gave you dialed them in? Things like gamma and contrast adjustments can impact its tracking ability.

Yeah we wish an option to change dwell time existed.

I haven't really needed to adjust the camera settings. Most of my issues can be seen in broad daylight with a crystal clear image. I've enabled WDR (+15) but the issues I'm having with tracking don't appear to be related to things like contrast or gamma. My issues related to person detection have more to do with the person detection algorithm.

 

[wittaj]

I haven't really needed to adjust the camera settings. Most of my issues can be seen in broad daylight with a crystal clear image. I've enabled WDR (+15) but the issues I'm having with tracking don't appear to be related to things like contrast or gamma. My issues related to person detection have more to do with the person detection algorithm.

You are having problems, thus showing you need to adjust settings.

You can't setting out every instance, but there are ways to get around it sticking on the mailbox. Getting off default settings is a huge start

Something as simple as having contrast 8 higher than brightness can make a big difference in whether the camera continues to follow the person or lock onto a mailbox.

I have a yard lamp post that more times than not autotrack would get stuck on it as someone was walking and the autotrack would only go so far as it decided to track the lamp post. Because my image has soo much contrast (bright white concrete a third, blacktop road a third, grass a third), knocking down the gamma made the lamp post not be so "trackable" lol, and along with that I turned of PFA and that gave it just enough time to retrack the person walking past the lamp post.

 

[bigredfish]

1-. I can’t figure out the best way to setup the spotter to have it move the PTZ to the proper preset. The spotter often forces the PTZ to move while it’s actively Auto-tracking which causes it to stop tracking. I currently have a few alert actions set up to move to 1 of 8 presets when a person is detected in one 8 zones on the spotter. This is all done within blue iris. I have the alert set to trigger when “New zones/sources only (additive). I’ve also tried “exclusive”. It also seems to be moving sporadically instead of moving the expected zone. (it might be a bit behind?) Is there a way to prevent the alert from forcing the PTZ to move while it’s actively tracking?

This is expected behavior. A command from a spotter takes priority over current tracking.
If you have multiple IVS lines drawn on the spotter too close together, especially if staggered in a single anticipated path, the spotter will send a signal each time a tripwire is crossed and keep breaking the current track

2. When the PTZ5A4M starts tracking it often loses tracking pretty quickly. It loses people as they walk behind cars or if they walk by a mailbox it will often focus on the mailbox and lose the person. I tried increasing the Tracking Target Ratio and it only helped a little. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that I can’t get the spotter to move the PTZ to the proper spot reliably. A 3 second dwell time before giving up on the target seems to be too short.
As far as I can tell the PTZ5A4M doesn’t have an adjustable dwell time so it gives up on tracking fairly quickly. I was also expecting much more customization with regards to Person tracking sensitivity but there are barely any options/settings for this.

Each scene has so many variibales we need to see a short clip to help
It could be settings, tracking size, or unrealistic expectations. These things arent quite as good as the AI/cameras on TV yet
Tracking Ratio is #1. I've found anything between 25 and 40 to get best results., anything higher normally zooms too close and loses the overall human figure and breaks track. Much depends on distance to target
Agree a configurable dwell time would be helpful

 

[wittaj]

1-. I can’t figure out the best way to setup the spotter to have it move the PTZ to the proper preset. The spotter often forces the PTZ to move while it’s actively Auto-tracking which causes it to stop tracking. I currently have a few alert actions set up to move to 1 of 8 presets when a person is detected in one 8 zones on the spotter. This is all done within blue iris. I have the alert set to trigger when “New zones/sources only (additive). I’ve also tried “exclusive”. It also seems to be moving sporadically instead of moving the expected zone. (it might be a bit behind?) Is there a way to prevent the alert from forcing the PTZ to move while it’s actively tracking?

This is expected behavior. A command from a spotter takes priority over current tracking.
If you have multiple IVS lines drawn on the spotter too close together, especially if staggered in a single anticipated path, the spotter will send a signal each time a tripwire is crossed and keep breaking the current track

2. When the PTZ5A4M starts tracking it often loses tracking pretty quickly. It loses people as they walk behind cars or if they walk by a mailbox it will often focus on the mailbox and lose the person. I tried increasing the Tracking Target Ratio and it only helped a little. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that I can’t get the spotter to move the PTZ to the proper spot reliably. A 3 second dwell time before giving up on the target seems to be too short.
As far as I can tell the PTZ5A4M doesn’t have an adjustable dwell time so it gives up on tracking fairly quickly. I was also expecting much more customization with regards to Person tracking sensitivity but there are barely any options/settings for this.

Each scene has so many variibales we need to see a short clip to help
It could be settings, tracking size, or unrealistic expectations. These things arent quite as good as the AI/cameras on TV yet
Tracking Ratio is #1. I've found anything between 25 and 40 to get best results., anything higher normally zooms too close and loses the overall human figure and breaks track. Much depends on distance to target
Agree a configurable dwell time would be helpful

Remember that with BI (which he said he is using), you can tell it to not take a command from a spotter camera if it is already engaged in tracking from another spotter. Not sure why his isn't working. Will have to see screenshots.

But yea, anything from gamma, contrast, brightness, tracking ratio, etc. has a direct effect on ability to track. These are not plug-n-play!

 

[ChrisMajestic]

Thanks for your responses. They've been helpful. My main focus right now is trying to get the spotter/ptz movement worked out. The tracking thing is not a huge issue.

I've been using basic motion zones within BI to trigger based on CPAI person alerts. CPAI does a fantastic job detecting people on the 180 spotter so I've preferred this method over settings up IVS zones within the spotter itself. However, it seems that I may not be taking into account the time it takes for the spotter to see a person then send the PTZ to the proper preset. By the time it sends the command, the person may be entering the next zone which causes the PTZ to miss the person and hang in the wrong preset for several seconds. Below is a screenshot of the zones setup within the spotter cam. I've tried several variations of zones with them touching or having a space in between and it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. I don't have my motion setup to trigger when crossing zones. I'm just using AI-confirmed motion alerts. Again, I think setting up IVS zones within the camera may be the key to solving my problems but it just seems like a nightmare to setup and will require lots of whiskey.

Here is a screenshot of the spotter and the zones for the spotter within BI. Notice I'm using all 8 zones (A-H). It's hard to see since it's green but zone G is the porch area to the far right. H is the zone that the truck is in which is the HOME preset on the PTZ. The PTZ is positioned about 7ft to the left of the spotter which is why the zones are slanted in that direction.


Another issue I'm having with the spotter is that certain zones simply will not trigger even though they are setup the exact same way as the others. The spotter will alert and show screenshots of what it saw but the PTZ never moves to that location. Yet it works fine in some of the other zones. I suppose it's possible I may have missed something somewhere.

This is how I have the spotter alerts configured to send the PTZ to the proper zone. My minimum AI confidence is set to 20% on the spotter. I don't mind false positives as I'll let the PTZ decide what to track when it's sent to the preset location.

 

[wittaj]

You have a lot going on in one camera and this is likely the issue.

Given your scenario, I would set up clone cameras in BI for each zone as I think that would allow what you are trying to do better. I think all those motion zones in one alert is why the camera is jumping all over the place and not ignoring if the camera is in active tracking.

As a test I would disable all of those in your alert but one and then clone a camera and try another zone for that area.

I also think IVS would be much better than relying on BI motion (some of your motion areas are small and I could see BI missing it) and using CodeProject confirmed alerts adds another complexity that is probably causing issues.

@bigredfish has said it before in a post somewhere about spotter cams and PTZs, it takes some alcohol (he may have said bourbon LOL) and some patience to nail this down and takes lots of testing and modifying to make it work.

Mine wasn't set up in one sitting. It takes trial and error.

 

[ChrisMajestic]

I'm going to try the clones. I'll report back. Thanks

 

[TheMajesticKing]

Sorry I just realized I was logged in with 2 different accounts. I just came back to report that setting up the clones helped a lot. The spotter is working more consistently. Thanks! tomorrow I'll post my camera image settings to try and improve the auto tracking.