IVS trouble, sideways Color4K-T

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Cj500

Getting the hang of it
Jul 5, 2018
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LA
This is a weird one. I have a Color4K-T turned sideways, (to not have a ton of wall), but I purposely didn’t flip the image (corridor mode) in the camera UI because you are forced to reduce the resolution from 4K to do so. Photo of scene attached.

The problem is: IVS won’t detect any movement at all. I have tripwires and intrusion zones set to detect any direction and human/car filtering turned OFF. I’ve tried three different firmwares from Andy.

Has anyone had this problem with a sideways camera? It almost feels like it’s trying to filter horizontal humans and cars even though that’s turned off.

eaea6605-c3ab-4a6b-bf46-00bd750998aa.jpeg
 
Camera is too high and the rotation is problematic as that was the field of view the AI was designed around.
 
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@wittaj, Since I have human and auto filter turned off, is it still using AI in IVS? I agree it seems to be confused by humans moving in a different way than horizontal. Is it not honoring that I turned off human/auto filtering?

IVS works perfect when image is flipped to corridor mode, but I had to reduce resolution, which isn’t ideal.
 
Turning off the object filter does not work. I don't know if it still enables human, auto, or both, but it does not shut off.

Does anybody here remember the Swiffer lady walking up the walls? Sounds like the cameras won't trigger on her.
 
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have you set up the smart plan, the object filter you mean target filter？
 
OK, no problem we talk on DM to make a fast talking.
 
IVS is not the way to go here.

When you flip the camera around IVS lines become up and down not side to side. To trigger an IVS alert you have to walk through the lines at 90 degrees on a horizontal plane (not strictly exactly 90 degrees) but think of a + sign as the orientation it detects in. When you rotate the camera, the lines orientate in such a way you're not crossing as the IVS expects. The person is also up and down in form and crosses thus the same way as the lines are orientated think of || with one vertical line crossing the other. Although they may come from the side, my guess is because the object is orientated the same as the lines, it fails to trigger. The IVS is probably programmed not to respond to crossing in this plane to prevent false alarms.

In an indoor situation such as this, I'd use motion instead. There's no trees, wind etc to falsely trigger motion so it should be 100% reliable.
 
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I tested the color 4kT and the IVS can work, but NOT very well when turned sideways, more the angle the less responsive it is.
I was only able to trip it a couple of times when at a full 90° angle.

To get IVS to trigger I had to place the camera in its normal position and set off the IVS rule - tripwire and intrusion, then I was able to turn the camera and get the IVS to trigger but only about 20% of the time.
I did shut off the target filter and it does seem to work.

Not sure how much mounting space you have but the wall mount only takes up 5"
I agree, if you can't set the camera in a normal position then video detection would be the best choice and this cam has SMD if you need to filter.


SnapShot(25).jpgSnapShot(26).jpgSnapShot(27).jpgSnapShot(28).jpg
 
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While I get the desire to use a corridor mode type setup, I've found little downside to just accepting the wall and focusing on my primary focal point.
Guess I'm just saying "walls happen" and as long as you're not getting problematic IR bounce, maybe its not such a big problem.


Example
Works just fine day and night with various lighting conditions., captures with walls taking up 40% of the scene - 3 priorities with one camera -( offsetting doors and the deck area leading up to them.)
Home_BackDoor-5442_main_20240622015913_@5.jpg Home_BackDoor-5442_main_20240622085251_@5.jpg Home_BackDoor-5442_main_20231210195541_@5.jpg

And of course the now famous Pizza Girl shot.... Tell me the first thing you noticed were the walls ;)
vlcsnap-00001.jpg
 
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bigredfish said:
I did but Mrs Bigredfish objected
Click to expand...

You realize I’m kidding right? One does not stay married 30+ years by chasing younger womenz ;)
Not to mention the expense ….
 
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Thank you. That was my same issue. I ended up giving up on the different angle of the camera and putting back to normal horizontal. IVS is working, but slow to detect someone crossing a zig zag tripwire.

Overall, the camera login and gui feels slow, so I might reset for the millionth time. Haven’t had as much luck with this camera as the 10 or so others from Andy in past years. Usually don’t have so many issues.

jmcu said:
I tested the color 4kT and the IVS can work, but NOT very well when turned sideways, more the angle the less responsive it is.
I was only able to trip it a couple of times when at a full 90° angle.

To get IVS to trigger I had to place the camera in its normal position and set off the IVS rule - tripwire and intrusion, then I was able to turn the camera and get the IVS to trigger but only about 20% of the time.
I did shut off the target filter and it does seem to work.

Not sure how much mounting space you have but the wall mount only takes up 5"
I agree, if you can't set the camera in a normal position then video detection would be the best choice and this cam has SMD if you need to filter.


View attachment 197018View attachment 197019View attachment 197020View attachment 197021
Click to expand...
 
Cj500 said:
Thank you. That was my same issue. I ended up giving up on the different angle of the camera and putting back to normal horizontal. IVS is working, but slow to detect someone crossing a zig zag tripwire.

Overall, the camera login and gui feels slow, so I might reset for the millionth time. Haven’t had as much luck with this camera as the 10 or so others from Andy in past years. Usually don’t have so many issues.
Click to expand...

Increase the number of trip wires. It takes a while to get the hang of it but you can draw a lot before it stops you. Another trick is to create another rule and this then allows you to add more trip wires.

In the example picture above of the decking by JMCU, I'd have zig zagged trip wires all the way down left to right with at least 10 wires and then I'd have done the same vertically to protect the door with a few less but still plenty. The more wires, the faster it trips potentially as multiple wires get crossed more quickly. You also reduce the likelyhood of someone finding a way into the door without triggering.

I have to say I'm surprised that JMCU didn't also put trip wires on the lawned area to trigger the camera ahead of time as one of the prime opportunities for a facial shot is as the person comes up the stairs onto the decking. THey may already be sideways to the camera by the time it trips if they turn straight away to the door if decking trips alone are relied on. Further if they get in, their back will be to the camera going away. So you coudl end up with a side shot of someone's hood and their back. I'd also have zig zagged wires across the stairway itself.

Personally I'd have scrapped the existing lines and done it something like this - this is a bit rough and ready, in reality you have to make sure your anchor points go right to the edge otherwise the camera may see the person walk around the end of the line rather than through it. eg I've failed to connect the blue lines on the stairs to the side of the uprights properly. The camera might see these as being more foreground than background and permit a person coming up the stairs when they turn right to walk behind them. You have to be careful and test and experiment and refine your pattern repeating it with adjustments until yuou get the anchors right. (remember below was just a very rough sketch in a photo editor with no real care taken). Another example from my rough drawing is the green lines don't extend far enough back to the railings by the door, a person can walk behind these also to the door. The trips can also fool with height. Anchoring properly is the key to a good trip wire as well as consideration for the direction of travel.

I'd also consider some trips on the grassed area / path to trip the camera earlier. These needn't be quite as intense in number if you find the number of rules cause the camera to struggle. The 4kt doesn't seem to have lots of processing headroom.

SnapShot(25).jpg
 
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Cj500 said:
Thank you. That was my same issue. I ended up giving up on the different angle of the camera and putting back to normal horizontal. IVS is working, but slow to detect someone crossing a zig zag tripwire.

Overall, the camera login and gui feels slow, so I might reset for the millionth time. Haven’t had as much luck with this camera as the 10 or so others from Andy in past years. Usually don’t have so many issues.
Click to expand...
I have the same experience using a 4kt in corridor mode... BI motion with cpai works fine, but I was trying to move to all IVS in camera, and IVS wouldn't trigger with a person in corridor mode.
 
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This was only a test for cj500 (OP) to see if the camera tripped when at a 90° angle for this T-4k, I would never set a camera up this way.

It didn't matter how may tripwires or intrusions were set, when the camera is at full tilt the AI is totaly unreliable in this type of set up.
For me at this location when set normally it has no issues, it tags FD as soon as you hit the steps or IVS at the sidewalk if set up.
 
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This may be a dumb question, but what is FD? Are you using object filter or no?

I went back to an older firmware and reset today and ivs seems slightly better. Still takes a second or two longer than my other cameras to detect. I can tell by it not recording first second on sd card and watching the sd card replay with rules showing. I’m only at 5fps, so not sure why it seems overwhelmed.

jmcu said:
This was only a test for cj500 (OP) to see if the camera tripped when at a 90° angle for this T-4k, I would never set a camera up this way.

It didn't matter how may tripwires or intrusions were set, when the camera is at full tilt the AI is totaly unreliable in this type of set up.
For me at this location when set normally it has no issues, it tags FD as soon as you hit the steps or IVS at the sidewalk if set up.
Click to expand...
 
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