Long outdoors netwok cable run

[Virga]

Request input on expanding network wiring from inside the house to more of the site. Here is the situation, questions follow:
Existing CamPoESwitch01lives in my “wiring center”, where all my wire home runs terminate (except electrical).
CamPoESwitch02 will be around 75 wire-feet away, down a conduit from the attic to the crawl, to the perimeter of the crawl. Conduit and Cat 6 ethernet wire already in place. I will be able to find an electrical outlet in the crawl to power this switch.
CamPoESwitch03 will be on an existing remote panel with power. From the outside of the crawl, there already exists a conduit approximately 330 conduit-feet, terminating in a junction box at either end. I have a pull-string in place in the ¾” conduit. I anticipate that from this switch several cameras could be supported. The panel comprises pressure treated 4x4’s buried in the ground, and some horizontal 1-by’s. Someday I’ll probably have to replace it, but so far it’s looking fine.

1. Which cable should I use for the 330’-plus run? That length is pushing to the theoretical ethernet limits.
From my research, people have trouble with terminations on the gel filled burial rated cable. I re-read this:
Breaking the law! Violating Ethernet Cable 328 Foot Length Limitations
I usually get supplies from Monoprice but on this topic True Cable took a deep dive therefore I have more confidence in products they are selling. Prices don’t seem out of line.
Buying cable and terminations from the same source will hopefully reduce incompatibility problems.

2. What specific switch should I use at the remote location? I’m thinking it’ll need to be at least 16 ports. With help from @samplenhold and @mat200 in another thread, the cam count is already at seven, others may chime in, and I’ve already thought up at least one more cam at the passenger side location @mat200 suggested. So we are at 9 ports already. Each cam serves a unique purpose.

3. What weathertight and lockable cabinet should I put the remote switch in? Perhaps it will have air vents.

4. What switch should I use in the crawl? It is a sealed crawl, and physical conditions are reasonable for equipment. This too could be a 16-port switch. I’ve thought up several wire pathways from the crawl to the outside, so more connectivity possibilities there.

 

[Teken]

If there is power at the other end it just makes sense to use fibre and a media converter. No worries about distance limitations as it relates to signal quality.

Even if there isn’t 120 VAC present given there is a pull string in place you can just run shielded 12-2 / 14-2 power wire with the fibre & media converter.

All of the above will offer high bandwidth, reliability, and long term safety as it relates to lightning protection.

Regardless of all the above proper single point grounding must be present. Along with the proper use and deployment of a SPD.

If you live anywhere close to lightning alley this is a must and requirement!

 

[samplenhold]

3. What weathertight and lockable cabinet should I put the remote switch in? Perhaps it will have air vents.

@bigredfish could give you some input on this as he has used some in his installations.

 

[samplenhold]

If there is power at the other end it just makes sense to use fibre and a media converter.

I agree. Also, some switches come with fiber uplink ports.

 

[Teken]

I agree. Also, some switches come with fiber uplink ports.

Absolutely, if 120 VAC is present a media converter can be replaced just with the POE Switch with a fibre uplink port.

Regardless, the two ends will be connected via fibre.

If the fibre is armoured it must be properly bonded to the homes single point electrical grounding system.

Grounding of the fibre cable can be avoided by using none armoured fibre cable or dielectric armoured fibre cable.

Lastly, I know for the average DIYer it’s easy to say buy and install indoor fibre into a conduit vs outdoor rated / direct burial fibre cable.

If you do get ready to to replace the same cable in about 2-5 years depending upon quality of sheathing!

Once water builds up in the conduit and depending upon the mineral content / salinity of the water it will eat into the casing.

 

[bigredfish]

@bigredfish could give you some input on this as he has used some in his installations.

We just used these with security screws. Pricey, I think the 20” was like $400

Ultra-Line Fiberglass Series Enclosure- Lift Off Screw Opaque Cover20X16X10

Buy Ultra-Line Fiberglass Series Enclosure Lift-Off Screw Opaque Cover online in the USA at an affordable price. Lightweight with lower installation cost!

nemasupply.com

 

[Virga]

@Teken thanks for your suggestions. Fiber sounds promising and would be something new for me to work on.

Thanks for the alert on grounding. About a year ago I got coax based internet service. They brought the service in at the opposite end of the house that electrical service enters, and thus where the electrical ground rod is. They asked for a ground rod to be provide at THEIR point of entry, and so it was. Shortly thereafter, in two separate events not far apart, I lost network equipment connected downstream of their service line. Finally somebody from my ISP came out with an experienced supervising installer. This guy determined that we should be grounding to the same rod that the electrical service grounds to. So he ran a 10 gauge ground wire from the electrical ground rod into the crawl to a small ground bar. He ran their coax service line across my crawl space to that ground bar, then back across the crawl, and up to my wiring center. No more destroyed equipment since then. Whatever single point grounding is, I need to understand it better or else will likely lose equipment.

I hope the terminations on fiber make it through ¾” conduit. Knowing what I know today, I would have asked for at least 1½” conduits or greater. But ¾” conduit is what I have in place, and managed to later get a pull line into it (not hard to do, when you get to it).

In defense of average DIYers, I respectfully submit we are not always complete idiots.
True, we are average. Still, we are smart enough to ask. We are grateful for the input we receive from pro’s and the big boys & girls who frequent some of the places we frequent, like this forum.
It is true there is a lot for us to learn, and we do so every day. We get smarter every day.

@samplenhold thanks for weighing in.

@bigredfish thank you for info on cabinets/enclosures.

 

[MTL4]

1. Which cable should I use for the 330’-plus run? That length is pushing to the theoretical ethernet limits.
From my research, people have trouble with terminations on the gel filled burial rated cable. I re-read this:
Breaking the law! Violating Ethernet Cable 328 Foot Length Limitations
I usually get supplies from Monoprice but on this topic True Cable took a deep dive therefore I have more confidence in products they are selling. Prices don’t seem out of line.
Buying cable and terminations from the same source will hopefully reduce incompatibility problems.

The gel filled ethernet cable works well in a direct burial or conduit situation (I just used multiple feeds for my pool and garage in 2” conduit at around 150ft away). I've never had any issues terminating it. I use a bit of brake cleaner to remove the gel when terminating then I add more dielectric grease at the end for water proofing. Beyond about 200ft I would definitely switch to fiber. Sure you can push copper further but why when most switches now come with SFP/SFP+ ports and can easily do fiber. It’s a bit more delicate to pull fiber in a conduit so tape the connections up really well to protect them and use some dielectric grease to ensure it won’t snag at all but the signal will be rock solid at huge distances.

 

[Teken]

@Teken thanks for your suggestions. Fiber sounds promising and would be something new for me to work on.

Thanks for the alert on grounding. About a year ago I got coax based internet service. They brought the service in at the opposite end of the house that electrical service enters, and thus where the electrical ground rod is. They asked for a ground rod to be provide at THEIR point of entry, and so it was. Shortly thereafter, in two separate events not far apart, I lost network equipment connected downstream of their service line. Finally somebody from my ISP came out with an experienced supervising installer. This guy determined that we should be grounding to the same rod that the electrical service grounds to. So he ran a 10 gauge ground wire from the electrical ground rod into the crawl to a small ground bar. He ran their coax service line across my crawl space to that ground bar, then back across the crawl, and up to my wiring center. No more destroyed equipment since then. Whatever single point grounding is, I need to understand it better or else will likely lose equipment.

I hope the terminations on fiber make it through ¾” conduit. Knowing what I know today, I would have asked for at least 1½” conduits or greater. But ¾” conduit is what I have in place, and managed to later get a pull line into it (not hard to do, when you get to it).

In defense of average DIYers, I respectfully submit we are not always complete idiots.
True, we are average. Still, we are smart enough to ask. We are grateful for the input we receive from pro’s and the big boys & girls who frequent some of the places we frequent, like this forum.
It is true there is a lot for us to learn, and we do so every day. We get smarter every day.

@samplenhold thanks for weighing in.

@bigredfish thank you for info on cabinets/enclosures.

As it relates to fibre there are many types of end connectors. Generally speaking, you would be using (LC) connectors.

Since you have limited space in the conduit your choice has already been decided for you unless you had the skill, tools, and knowledge to split & join fibre.

In this case you would use a (Single Mode) LC (connector) Fibre with the same SM / LC BIDI transceiver. Essentially the BIDI transceiver transmits at two different wavelengths using a single cable vs a (MM) Multi Mode LC cable which has two separate cables joined together for RX / TX.

Grounding: As it relates to lightning protection / surge protection the key points.

- Low resistance (<25 Ohms) to Earth

- Single Point: Everything is bonded to the homes electrical grounding system.

- Wire: 6 - 12 AWG copper stranded / solid diameter wire based on the ampacity it’s expected to carry and codes in place.
As short as possible with no sharp bends in the cable. Depending upon the NEC / CEC codes in place the wire may be required to be bare copper vs insulated and coloured appropriately such as green / green yellow stripe.

Star Washer: This washer should be in place anytime a bolt / screw is used. This is the last line of defence to bite into the material and make solid contact as it relates to low resistance grounding on any metal surface.

Dielectric: This should be applied where needed to keep moisture at bay and help reduce corrosion, arcing, and insulation.

SPD: Surge Protective Device come in four (Types) and each are so rated to handle specific surge current and operate at different let through voltages. As such Type 1-3 should always be installed for layered protection. Type 4 should be in place if you want everything protected at the device level.

Type 1 is installed at the service entrance (Meter).
Type 2 is installed at the service panel (Breaker).
Type 3 is installed at the Point Of Use such as an outlet, surge strip, UPS, etc.
Type 4 is installed inline prior to any device like machinery, HVAC, Washer, etc.

Lightning Protection: There are three types / options available today. Proactive, Reactive, Hybrid systems that offer the most protection.

Proactive systems use electronics to generate positive / negative charged ions in the environment. Other mechanical systems use whiskers of wire to dissipate ions in the atmosphere.

Lightning rods are reactive and simply absorb the high voltage strike and shunt to ground the fault voltage through the wiring to earth ground.

These devices obviously only work if the lightning strikes the rod!

Lastly, there are thousands of so called stories about why something worked / didn’t. Bottom line it’s luck / no luck / to having everything perfectly in place.

There are millions of building that are struck by lightning every year and nothing ever happens after the fact. There are the same number of buildings where something always happens after the fact!

People also can not compare a communication tower made entirely of metal to a wooden building! Nor can you compare a metal building to one made out of concrete!

 

[Virga]

So far this is what I understand about fiber optic cables, and this understanding is a work-in-progress:

1. There is single-mode fiber optic cable and multi-mode fiber optic cable. Single mode is best suited for long distances, is skinnier, needs precision in installing, and is likely what utilities use though they probably have many, many fiber strands running together. Multimode fiber is fatter, can simultaneously transmit different modes of signal (data, video, voice etc.), and is suited for shorter distances. For residential applications, the fiber standard is two-strand multi-mode cable.

2. There are quite a few types of fiber termination connectors, and it is not clear to me if there is a dominant standard, though LC seems to crop up often.

3. Both ends of the fiber go into a receiver each, which plugs into a SFP port in a switch at either end (or a media converter). The media converter is incorporated in the switch. So a terminated fiber optic cable plus a transceiver at each end is a standard that goes into the SFP port at either end. The switch probably does not care what termination the fiber optic cable itself has.

4. Looks like there are indoor fiber optic cables, indoor/outdoor fiber optic cables, and burial rated fiber optic cables that have an appropriate outer armor/protection. So far it seems that an indoor/outdoor cable would be fine in a buried schedule 40 conduit, though not sure about this.

5. Terminated cable of specified length can be bought that comes with a pulling “eye/hook” at either end that is in a protective “pouch” at each end. All this is to protect the physical integrity of the cable.

6. It may be doable, but a ¾” conduit is going to be tight to pull a fiber optic cable through, because the protective “pouch” has to make it through the entire length of the conduit, around 330’ in my case. May have to wait until I get a 1½” or 2” conduit in place.

7. Outdoor PoE switches come built in IP-67 or IP-68 protective enclosures, though I have only come across 8-port such switches. Guessing that for more ports, the solution would be to daisy-chain two such switches and thus have 14 ports to work with. Heat dissipation may be the constraint for the number of ports supported in one IP enclosure. Am thinking that some kind of shading of the IP switch enclosure would be useful.

8. Fiber optic cables and outdoor switches/cabinets are not cheap. That said, even ethernet cable bought in 1,000 foot rolls is quite a bit more than whatever I paid the last time I bought several rolls.