Looking for an IR Illuminator .... I think

[Baspinall]

So I have a Hikvision 2132 2.8mm cam on a commercial site. Camera looks at a parking lot and walkway. Last night they had a car stolen from there. A flatbed came and scooped up a Yukon. My question is would an IR Illuminator helped here or should I be looking for a different model camera for this situation. The parking lot is approx. 150-200 ft from camera.
2 snapshots attached. The White Yukon there during the day. Them loading in up that night.

 

[nayr]

an illuminator would have never helped, your an order of magnitude farther away than a 2.8mm camera can identify jack shit.. i mean all I can see in daytime is a GMC/2 fords and an Audi.. you knew it was a flat bed trailer already, and thats about all you'd of gotten.

even trying to get an illuminator to do anythign that distance would requrie an illuminator that cost more than your camera..

Camera Calculator / Design Software

at 150-200ft away, your going to need some badass optics.. for me to read license plates @ 180ft I am using 60mm optics on 4MP Camera..

 

[Baspinall]

Pretty much what I thought. I don't think dropping some cash on a high end IR Illuminator is an issue but if we are still going to get the same results in identification then its a wash. How about a good IR along with something like a 2.8mm-12mm varifocal camera? I think this customer has some high expectations. He really needs to get some light out there.

 

[j4co]

Perhaps a PTZ which has 20 or 30 times zoom and ir for 100 meter or more?
Work pretty good for me but my car is like 25 meter away only.

 

[nayr]

12mm wont do diddily squat.. use that link I posted above and keep PPF > 100 if you want identification capabilities

Assuming a 1080p camera:
a 2.8mm @ 150ft is: 5.5 PPF (Pixels per foot)
a 12mm @ 150ft is: 23.8 PPF
a 60mm @ 150ft is: 119PPF <-- Absolute Minimum for Identification
a 100mm @ 150ft is: 198.1PPF <-- Excellent

Look at a Dahua Black face 20x or 30x PTZ, gona cost you ~$400-$500

My Black Face PTZ gives me a overview of the yard in the day zoomed out, then at 9pm every day it changes to zooming in on my car door parked on the road.. then back again in the morning, I use external software to accomplish this combined with presets.

 

[looney2ns]

Hi Nayr, where are finding the Black Face PTZ's for $400-$500?
Thanks

 

[nayr]

here's the new starlight model that has the same sensor as the Starlight Turret I just reviewed: 2Megapixel Exmor R CMOS Starlight technology dahua PTZ SD59225U HNI 25X Optical Zoom(4.8mm~120mm)-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

 

[cam235]

Thanks for that link. I see "IR distance up to 150m" I assume that is either a laser, or a pretty impressive LED illuminator?

EDIT: I read "IR LEDs : 4". They must be pretty bright.

 

[looney2ns]

I believe it's a combination of the excellent sensor and good IR output.
Thanks Nayr.

 

[nayr]

laser IR is just optics on the IR that have adjustable focus and follows the lens as it zooms in.. my IR cannons could be considered laser IR as far as the marketing is concerned.

the black face has the array style, its got wide angle and narrow angle fixed IR and it powers up some and powers down others depending on zoom level.. not quite as nice as laser IR but it still works well.

 

[cam235]

Thanks for that clarification, I assumed "laser" meant literally an IR laser. For my ALPR application, what I'd really like is that sensor + 120mm lens but I don't need the PTZ function. I haven't seen a good quality CS-mount lens available in that focal range.

 

[nayr]

given how close my LPR camera build came to a Black Face PTZ price I would of just bought one of those in the first place if not for the fact that my only location was entirely unsuitable for it..

I was over $300 total for the 4MP Box Camera, Very cheap Lens, IR, Enclosure, etc.. I'd of gladly paid a couple hundred more to be able to adjust it from the comfort of my chair instead of all the time it takes to manually, zoom, focus, tweak mounting and then repeat anytime I have to open it up and get inside.

 

[cam235]

Yeah, the cost of separate parts does add up. I also wonder about the power spec: 13W (23W IR on). I've seen 4 MP cameras specify 4W. Is the extra 9 W even without IR, just from the PTZ functions, or does the 2MP sensor need more power?

 

[pozzello]

the BEST solution would be to place multiple cameras around or at least closer to the parking lot.

failing that, higher zoom from current cam location would allow better identification day and night (with proper IR.)

problem there is, zoom in enuf to id someone (or get a license plate) at that distance and you can't cover the entire lot,

so you either need multiple cameras, or a PTZ set up to scan the lot. Possibly parked in a wide view on the entire lot,
then zoom in on 'activity' as it occurs using various alerts and presets. Issue there might be that a tree swaying
in the breeze may distract the detection system and cause you to miss something more interesting like car being stolen...

So back to multiple cams, closer to the lot covering it from various angles, if possible...
and/or dedicate a cam or two to grab license plates at the lot entrance.

 

[nayr]

the extra power celing for the PTZ's is from the two motors, if parked permanently it wont be drawing 13W but it will when it moves.. and it does a calibration dance at startup and turns on the IR.. so you do need to provide it with a PoE+ source to keep it happy.

 

[Baspinall]

Thanks for all the answers. There is no power anywhere other than he building at the moment so putting cameras closer isnt an option right now. I went and measured the distance it's 137 feet to the back side of the parking area.

 

[Kawboy12R]

If there's a power pole out there get the power company to put a dusk-til-dawn light on it. I don't see one from the pics but you never know. Having power and a few ethernet cables out there near the end of the walk would help immensely. Then you could stick a few cameras and lights on a pole or small enclosure/shed. That 2.8mm is useful for telling you what happened (a flatbed stole the Yukon) but useless for WHO stole the Yukon. White light out there would allow you to maybe tell the colour of the flatbed but that's it. External IR illuminator mounted near the existing cam would sharpen the shape of the truck and the thieves but still be pretty useless for ID. Fast and dirty fix would be 2-3 more cams on the building, preferably with lots of light added to the parking area. Say a 12mm for a bit better WHAT capability plus at least one possibly two 50mm+ lensed cams with a good angle on vehicles coming in the entrance. One tuned for plates and the other for external vehicle and facial ID at night. A plate cam is useless on anything but plates at night but will get faces quite nicely during the day, though the two cams will be overkill during the day. Getting a face with a cam through a rolled up car window is hard day or night though.

 

[j4co]

If that is not public ground but your own, i would start digging and put conduit to a secured pole near the cars.

 

[Chust]

an illuminator would have never helped, your an order of magnitude farther away than a 2.8mm camera can identify jack shit.. i mean all I can see in daytime is a GMC/2 fords and an Audi.. you knew it was a flat bed trailer already, and thats about all you'd of gotten.

even trying to get an illuminator to do anythign that distance would requrie an illuminator that cost more than your camera..

Camera Calculator / Design Software

at 150-200ft away, your going to need some badass optics.. for me to read license plates @ 180ft I am using 60mm optics on 4MP Camera..

Thanks Nayr!!! That calculator is bada55!!!

 

[nayr]

were all adults here; your can say badass

shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits.. 7 words you cant say on TV but you can say on IPCamtalk