Looking to get GW Security system from Newegg

[D!ngo]

Anyone have any experience with GW security? I couldn't do any search on this forum and the reviews on Amazon is spotty.

The system I'm looking at is a 16 cam varifocal 3MP, H.265 NVR with 5TB included for $2599. I could not find any bandwidth info on the NVR either.

Any comments or suggestions of other system is appreciated.

 

[D!ngo]

Forgot to supply the link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA46G3NT5228

 

[fenderman]

Don't! Do some research first... There are much better options.

 

[D!ngo]

Don't! Do some research first... There are much better options.

Can you elaborate on that? I am new to IP so what options are you referring?

I googled complete system with 16 cameras and most I got was on Amazon and some online security sites. I found this GW system on Amazon so I googled them but nothing in terms of bad rap. The cheapest I found was on Newegg compared to Amazon and their own website, which looks like it was built by a high school web designer, giving me a negative impression.

 

[fenderman]

Can you elaborate on that? I am new to IP so what options are you referring?

I googled complete system with 16 cameras and most I got was on Amazon and some online security sites. I found this GW system on Amazon so I googled them but nothing in terms of bad rap. The cheapest I found was on Newegg compared to Amazon and their own website, which looks like it was built by a high school web designer, giving me a negative impression.

Dont use google. Use this forum. There are many threads discussing various options. That GW system is no good.

 

[D!ngo]

Dont use google. Use this forum. There are many threads discussing various options. That GW system is no good.

Is it because they are not reliable, lack of features, customer support, etc? All their cameras are 4MP with varifocus lens and the NVR has POE with 8TB for less than $3K. Sorry if it seems like I'm rejecting your opinion. I'm trying to pick your brain, or any knowledgeable person on this forum, as I'm trying to learn the ins and outs of these things. Right now I am down to three choices that fits my budget: GW, Neilly and LTS from @milkisbad.

 

[fenderman]

Is it because they are not reliable, lack of features, customer support, etc? All their cameras are 4MP with varifocus lens and the NVR has POE with 8TB for less than $3K. Sorry if it seems like I'm rejecting your opinion. I'm trying to pick your brain, or any knowledgeable person on this forum, as I'm trying to learn the ins and outs of these things. Right now I am down to three choices that fits my budget: GW, Neilly and LTS from @milkisbad.

All of the above. Buy from a place that offers a long warranty or costco where you can return anytime. You are going to spend 2600 on a system and if after 30 days there is an issue you are screwed. There is seldom any reason to need 16 cameras all varifocal. Basic specs like resolution tell you nothing about how the camera will perform.

 

[zero-degrees]

Is it because they are not reliable, lack of features, customer support, etc? All their cameras are 4MP with varifocus lens and the NVR has POE with 8TB for less than $3K. Sorry if it seems like I'm rejecting your opinion. I'm trying to pick your brain, or any knowledgeable person on this forum, as I'm trying to learn the ins and outs of these things. Right now I am down to three choices that fits my budget: GW, Neilly and LTS from @milkisbad.

"Pre Boxed Systems" are only great when they are a steal of a deal, or nothing else is available. Even though they are all adjustable from 3-12mm and half are domes and half are bullets it doesn't mean they are cameras that will fit your needs or the location where you plan on placing them. Further more, those domes are large - if this is for a residential setting and you want to place some inside the home those are huge. If you want to place those bullets outside they are the IR clusters and not a newer lower power requirement Matrix IR (Which in my opinion also gives you a better/more even picture). Bottom line - most installs require 2 - 4 styles of cameras depending on the size of the install and needs of location so expecting 8 bullets and 8 domes to do what you need might not be the case. You will most likely find yourself using mult cameras just to get the coverage you want or over lapping coverage just because you have extra cameras. If your budget is $2500 and this system gives you 16 cameras - you can most likely spend $2500 and get better cameras and only get 10-12 and accomplish the same task with better quality and coverage. More cameras doesn't always mean better system.

Bottom line - Look at the Catalog from Milk. Get cameras specifically for each location. Also keep in mind in some areas you may want a 2mp instead of a 3 or 4 as the 2mp will provide you a better/cleaner (less noisy) night image. Here is a review on several LTS cameras I did awhile back - might give you a little better idea of those cameras https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/5681-HIKVision-amp-LTS-3-amp-4mp-Camera-review-example?highlight=LTS+3mp+4mp

LTS and Nelly's are both very solid companies. Both have amazing tech support if you need it, great warranties, and LTS pretty much has next day replacement for warranty/RMA's (least for us, as we're only a few hours from our primary LTS dealer).

 

[D!ngo]

"Pre Boxed Systems" are only great when they are a steal of a deal, or nothing else is available. Even though they are all adjustable from 3-12mm and half are domes and half are bullets it doesn't mean they are cameras that will fit your needs or the location where you plan on placing them. Further more, those domes are large - if this is for a residential setting and you want to place some inside the home those are huge. If you want to place those bullets outside they are the IR clusters and not a newer lower power requirement Matrix IR (Which in my opinion also gives you a better/more even picture). Bottom line - most installs require 2 - 4 styles of cameras depending on the size of the install and needs of location so expecting 8 bullets and 8 domes to do what you need might not be the case. You will most likely find yourself using mult cameras just to get the coverage you want or over lapping coverage just because you have extra cameras. If your budget is $2500 and this system gives you 16 cameras - you can most likely spend $2500 and get better cameras and only get 10-12 and accomplish the same task with better quality and coverage. More cameras doesn't always mean better system.

Bottom line - Look at the Catalog from Milk. Get cameras specifically for each location. Also keep in mind in some areas you may want a 2mp instead of a 3 or 4 as the 2mp will provide you a better/cleaner (less noisy) night image. Here is a review on several LTS cameras I did awhile back - might give you a little better idea of those cameras https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/5681-HIKVision-amp-LTS-3-amp-4mp-Camera-review-example?highlight=LTS+3mp+4mp

LTS and Nelly's are both very solid companies. Both have amazing tech support if you need it, great warranties, and LTS pretty much has next day replacement for warranty/RMA's (least for us, as we're only a few hours from our primary LTS dealer).

Thanks for your input @zero-degrees.

I am replacing my 16-cam analog that has 8 domes and 8 bullets so this 16-cam GW system was a perfect fit. However, after reading some advise against these pre-boxed system I'm thinking I should take heed.

After some of consideration and re-planning my camera placement, I think your insight makes a lot of sense. I might have to go with different camera types for some of my locations and I will definitely go the Matrix IR route for outdoor. I didn't really like the way my IR was casting a big bright spot in the middle of the video but I was ok with that. Now having seen the difference side-by-side image I'm sold.

I was surprise, though, at what you said about using 2MP cameras instead of 3 or 4MP. Why would a higher pixel camera cause more noise in night image? My understanding was the higher the MP the better the image. I was thinking of going with all 4MP. Can I just scale the pixel down the 4MP camera to create a better night image or only a 2MP inherently creates better image? Or does it have anything to do with the NVR or recording software?

 

[zero-degrees]

@D!ngo

Yea, the matrix IR will eliminate that IR "halo" you are seeing with the ring/cluster of IR in the night vision with your current cameras.

Most people believe "more MP" means "better quality". What this really means is that you are able to enlarge or zoom into an image and retain more detail. Example would be: the ability to zoom into a perps face and get more distinguishing features vs it just bluring out because there are not enough pixels. So, in daytime images - I guess you can safely say "more MP means better quality"... However, there are a ton of cameras on the market that advertise 4mp and still provide a crappy image that's why you want to go with reputable/trusted manufactures that you can find information about, real examples, and has support/warranties in the event you are unhappy. That's one of the reasons this forum is helpful - several people have posted real life examples/captures/snap shots etc from several brands so you can make a decision a little easier. Now everyone has an "opinion" about what is a "quality" image - but that's why I say look at examples and decide for yourself whats acceptable for your application. Also is it important to you to have a US supported product with 2,3,4 year warranty - these are additional questions you need to ask yourself as you design your system.

Now, back to the 2mp vs 3mp vs 4mp night image. This has everything to do with the image sensor on the camera. The 3mp is one of the noisest sensors currently out in the HIK line. The 2mp sensors allow cleaner crisper nightime images. Here is a weblink referenced often in the forum to explain why more MP isn't always better. http://www.cnet.com/news/camera-megapixels-why-more-isnt-always-better-smartphones-unlocked/

For reference as it relates to HIK cameras: 2mp Best night time, 4mp Better Night time, 3mp good Night time.

Here are some examples for refrence

3MP Matrix IR 4mm (click and go full screen, you can see the noise in the image)
This is acceptable to me for its location as I have entry point cameras should someone approach - this is just more an "over watch" camera


4MP 2.8mm dome - IR OFF


4MP 2.8mm dome


2MP 4mm Dome - IR ON


2MP 2.8mm Dome - Daytime


2mp 2.8mm Dome - IR with security lighting on


3mp Matrix IR



Also keep in mind when you look at examples try to find examples with video or objects in them. The reason is I've seen some people post examples here where they adjust settings on the cameras to give them "better" night images however if there would have been any movement in the image it would have been blury or unrecognizable but they are trying to prove a point in the forum. Seeing examples is key - also look to youtube as you can normally find a lot of example videos there as well. This is why I try to give examples with people or possible moving objects in them so you can tell no games are being played.

 

[D!ngo]

Great post @zero-degrees. Thanks for sharing those photos. I did a lot of reading, from your other posts and threads, and all I can say was I feel like I was back in school. Most of the technical stuff just blew past me but I am getting the big picture of how IP works, no pun intended. Very informative and helpful.

I think clear night images are more important than day because, frankly, most crimes happened at night. That's exactly what happened to my next door neighbor. My analog night video and images were so grainy and blurry they were useless. This is a 1000TVL hi-def system. Day time video is very clear. Night time is a different story. That gave me a wake up call to switch over to IP for better night video.

My plans just took a different course now that I have a better idea of what to incorporate into MY system and needs instead of the one-size-fits-all package.