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LPR - Camera For Night

tech101

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So I have two IPC-HFW5231E-Z12E camera for night which are capturing plates fine. Both in diffrent directions of same street off course to capture both front and back plates.

I am thinking of installing two more camera which can get general description of car when they pass by not necessary plates but just like a clean shot of the car at night..

Can I use same make model of camera to do the job ? Or should I use some other camera model for this ?
 

wtimothyholman

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Yes, another -Z12E will probably do the job just fine. I do the same with my SD49225T-HN camera, which has a similar sensor to the -Z12E. The only drawback is that I still can't see the true color of the vehicle in nighttime B/W mode, but otherwise I get good results. You'll have to do some experimentation with the camera settings to obtain images with minimum blur but sufficient brightness to see the details of the vehicle.

I would recommend setting the -Z12E camera to record at maximum frame rate (40 fps) to ensure multiple images of each vehicle.
 

tech101

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Yes, another -Z12E will probably do the job just fine. I do the same with my SD49225T-HN camera, which has a similar sensor to the -Z12E. The only drawback is that I still can't see the true color of the vehicle in nighttime B/W mode, but otherwise I get good results. You'll have to do some experimentation with the camera settings to obtain images with minimum blur but sufficient brightness to see the details of the vehicle.

I would recommend setting the -Z12E camera to record at maximum frame rate (40 fps) to ensure multiple images of each vehicle.
Awesome thank you I will order the z12E thanks
 

bigredfish

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@wtimothyholman makes good points, a couple of questions you may want to ask yourself:
- What is the distance to the spot where you can best capture the vehicle with the Overview camera? You may not need the zoom of the Z12
- Do you have enough light in that area to run the Overview camera in color mode?

Here's an example of a Z12 capturing the tag, and a plain 5231E-ZE running Overview, both mounted side by side

(remember to set the youtube layer to 1080p)
 

tech101

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@wtimothyholman makes good points, a couple of questions you may want to ask yourself:
- What is the distance to the spot where you can best capture the vehicle with the Overview camera? You may not need the zoom of the Z12
- Do you have enough light in that area to run the Overview camera in color mode?

Here's an example of a Z12 capturing the tag, and a plain 5231E-ZE running Overview, both mounted side by side

(remember to set the youtube layer to 1080p)
Absolutely amazing ! Thank you That is something Similar I am trying to do. So When done I think I should have like 4 Z12E. Pointing in both direction to capture front and back plates..

Thank you so much for sharing this video this is very helpful and kind of get me an idea how Z12E will perform at night for this overview task..


Now only thing is soon I Might have to get a NEW PC lol, My current processor is a old one i7 980x.

It is running already at 60 % - 68 % at times..

I have so far 13 cam feeds coming in .. Out of which only one is recording I believe at 6 mp and other are all 2 mp 15 fps.. Live view is set to 10fps..
 

wtimothyholman

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@wtimothyholman makes good points, a couple of questions you may want to ask yourself:
- What is the distance to the spot where you can best capture the vehicle with the Overview camera? You may not need the zoom of the Z12
- Do you have enough light in that area to run the Overview camera in color mode?
Unfortunately, your video illustrates the exact problem I ran into when attempting to operate my camera in color mode at night. You still can't really tell what color the car is. Is it black? Green? Blue? Red? The combination of camera sensor plus the street illumination isn't enough to make it work well.

Eventually I gave up and switched back to B/W mode for nighttime viewing, which provides better contrast when viewing the car. For good color performance at night, you either need a better camera sensor (which Dahua is adding to new cameras), or brighter illumination. Streetlights alone won't cut it.

Another suggestion: I point my overview camera so that it faces the road perpendicularly, instead of the same direction as the LPR camera. I get better results by recording the car at a 90 degree angle, with reduced glare from headlights and taillights at night.
 

bigredfish

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Quite true its a trade off. Though 4 other cams including the one in the culdesac which stays in color also capture vehicles.
This Overview cam's primary purpose is to look down the street,- capturing vehicles in synch with the tag camera is a bonus. If the primary purpose of the extra camera was purely for vehicle ID, agree I would point perpendicular to the street.

My point was that he may not need a Z12 to do what a regular 5231E-ZE an do. Generally with Overview I want a wide angle.

When the street light is working correctly (have called Duke) and the end house has his coach lights on, which he does most nights, I get acceptable color.

(remember to change youtube player to 1080p)


The 8231 in the culdesac does pretty well as it has better light to your point.

This was an older non-starlight 52A1EN that did provide useful info using color mode.
 
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tech101

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Quite true its a trade off. Though 4 other cams including the one in the culdesac which stays in color also capture vehicles.
This Overview cam's primary purpose is to look down the street,- capturing vehicles in synch with the tag camera is a bonus. If the primary purpose of the extra camera was purely for vehicle ID, agree I would point perpendicular to the street.

My point was that he may not need a Z12 to do what a regular 5231E-ZE an do. Generally with Overview I want a wide angle.

When the street light is working correctly (have called Duke) and the end house has his coach lights on, which he does most nights, I get acceptable color.

(remember to change youtube player to 1080p)


The 8231 in the culdesac does pretty well as it has better light to your point.

This was an older non-starlight 52A1EN that did provide useful info using color mode.

Hi thank you BigRedfish These video are really helpful and thanks to you. I have now added the 2nd 5231-ZE for overview today. For night. IT will be the first night for me to see how the overview looks. Do you have any recommendation in terms of setting for night for overview ? LIke shutter speed Iris and 3D NR ? Also do you use HLC , WDR , OR Any of those if yes what settings should I dial those in for nighttime.. I know it will probably take some fine tuning depending on light conditions.

I was wondering any base settings I should try tonight.. and then fine tune as I go..

Here are some close shots The Zoom in one will be the LPR at night and the zoomed out image is the camera for Overview..

TE-111.20190602_134001_1.jpg TE-121.20190602_134001_1.jpg
 

bigredfish

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Start with something like this for your Z12. No WDR. Probably wont need HLC with the shutter at 1/2000. You may need extra IR however...

May zoom in a bit more. What is the distance from the Z12 to that spot?

front-tag-night-0331.jpg
 

tech101

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Start with something like this for your Z12. No WDR. Probably wont need HLC with the shutter at 1/2000. You may need extra IR however...

May zoom in a bit more. What is the distance from the Z12 to that spot?

View attachment 43082
60-70 ft for the LPR2 < (Channel Title) which is zoomed in on the images I posted.

. And about 100 -110 ft for the zoomed out one (LPR Camera) < - On channel title
... which is for overview..

Also the settings you just posted is this for overview correct ?

I do have one Extra IR already in place to help if needed more I will add more. Also I have left both camera IR for night to Smart IR for now?
 

bigredfish

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No the settings I posted are for the Z12 LPR camera

Zoom in- further, smalller FOV
Zoomed out- closer, wider FOV
;)

Your LPR camera would be more zoomed in than the Overview camera. Assuming they are mounted close to each other the distance would be the same..

The 5231E-ZE Overview is set like below using 70 HLC

5231-entrance-night-0514-HLC70.jpg
 

tech101

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Start with something like this for your Z12. No WDR. Probably wont need HLC with the shutter at 1/2000. You may need extra IR however...

May zoom in a bit more. What is the distance from the Z12 to that spot?

View attachment 43082
No the settings I posted are for the Z12 LPR camera

Zoom in- further, smalller FOV
Zoomed out- closer, wider FOV
;)

Your LPR camera would be more zoomed in than the Overview camera. Assuming they are mounted close to each other the distance would be the same..

The 5231E-ZE Overview is set like below using 70 HLC

View attachment 43087
No My LPR overview is mounted further. Since I could not get another cable where LPR currently is.. So the overview one is 100-120 ft..

Thank you for the overview setting using your settings I dialed in the overview for tonight only thing is on mine (AUTO IRIS) do not have on off option it is more like slider.. see below..

THanks !


2019-06-02 16_17_02-Blue Iris.png
 

bigredfish

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Gotcha! That should get you in the ballpark, it will vary depending on how much light you have and from which direction. May even try simple 1/30 or 1/60 speed.

Back DNR down as far as you can stand it.
 

tech101

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IMG_4634.jpg

So in the picture You see the LPR - And the over view is in the background ... A little further..

Thank you BigRedFish for your help, I will try tonight and see how it turns out.. And will post some images to maybe get it tuned a bit..
 

tech101

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TE-111.20190603_002501_1.jpg TE-111.20190602_212001_1.jpg 2019-06-03 06_20_13-Setting.png 2019-06-03 06_20_36-Setting.png 2019-06-03 06_20_55-Setting.png 2019-06-03 06_21_11-Setting.png 2019-06-03 06_21_22-Setting.png 2019-06-03 06_21_32-Setting.png


SO the first pic is what I have set it to run all last night which is in black and white mode..

The 2nd is color.. the color seems like either needs way more light .. or I dont know how to set the camera right..


My current setting even for black and white does not look that great.. seems like ..
 

bigredfish

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Im afraid you just dont have near enough white light to run forced color at night.

As to the tag capture:
1- The camera you have labeled LPR2 which is zoomed in more that just sees the top of the mailbox is the one that would capture tags. For the Tag cam, start with the settings I showed in the first pic. 1/1000 or 1/2000
2- The one you show above is ok for Overview, but as mentioned, you're not going to be able to run color mode as you dont have enough white light. For B&W I'd try turning off backlight, and you probably need more IR at that distance.
 

bigredfish

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Yeah the B&W one could use some improvement..let me change mine to B&W tomorrow and I'll post some settings. It may all be about the light. I have street lights that help a ton.
 

tech101

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Yeah, I might try to add some IR floor lights and see.. I think I gotta make sure that shutter speed is a bit higher if I want sharp images.. at least.. With IR light going
 
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