Mainstream not showing up

[Karey Watson]

Morning folks..

I have a off branded NVR and Cameras. They are without question Hikvision but the support comes from the company I bought them from. GSS. Think OEM. They're helpful but obviously closed.

NR310-8 - Global Security Solutions

I set some of the system up yesterday and things have been fine. I only have 2 of the 5 cameras up currently. When I woke up this morning and hit the NVR on the LAN, I noticed one of the cameras would not display. When I swap to the sub stream in the web interface of the NVR, it displays. The other camera connected displays on either main or sub stream via the browser across the LAN. The IVMS-4500 app displays both (because they are substream).

I went outside and triggered the motion and checked recording. It's there and obviously main stream as it's crystal clear (not lower resolution of sub stream). I logged into the camera directly and can swap back and forth between sub and main stream and can clearly see the resolution changing between the two by focusing on the grass. I rebooted the camera via the direct login. I went upstairs to the NVR and there are no errors and all is displaying there. I rebooted the NVR. I still cannot get an image via the web browser on the LAN to come through when I select main stream.

It is abnormally cold here right now and the camera in question is on the front porch. It was only 17F last night so I wouldn't think that would be an issue? The camera w/ no issue is inside. The only thing I can think of that I haven't tried is to swap ports on my POE switch but seeing as it's obviously recording the main stream upon motion, I am baffled.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[mlapaglia]

What resolution and bitrate are you running the camera at? As a troubleshooting step, turn the mainstream quality down and see if it works then.

 

[Karey Watson]

What resolution and bitrate are you running the camera at? As a troubleshooting step, turn the mainstream quality down and see if it works then.

2048x1536 @ 12288 Kbps

The other camera is set the same. I was slightly at a loss on where to go with the bitrate but I found a document online that said Best was around 15000Kbps and good was 10000Kbps. Trying to find that document to link, can't seem to find it again and most of what I see is 4000 Kbps.. Should I reboot the camera and/or NVR when changing that information? I did set it down to 8000Kbps this morning and there was no change.

 

[Karey Watson]

It's the bitrate, I guess. If I drop it to 4 or 5000 max bitrate, it displays. Any idea what a sweet spot would be for a 3mp image on highest quality @ 20fps? Interestingly enough the other camera is not having any issues with the 12000+ max bitrate setting. The only variable differing between them would be the temperature. It's 72F for the one inside and 17-22F for the one having the issue.

 

[mlapaglia]

Did you terminate the wire connections yourself? I found I had issues with higher bitrates when I crimped my own network ends. I switched to terminating on an outlet switch then using a premade network cable to connect the jack to the camera.

 

[Karey Watson]

Here's the .pdf I found which is why I had the camera @ 12000kpbs

http://www.hikvision.com/ueditor/net/upload/2015-06-10/1d1bb063-829e-4b95-921d-0640d017f108.pdf

 

[Karey Watson]

Did you terminate the wire connections yourself? I found I had issues with higher bitrates when I crimped my own network ends. I switched to terminating on an outlet switch then using a premade network cable to connect the jack to the camera.

Yeah, I did make the ends myself. I don't have any extra jacks at the house currently to try. What is an acceptable max bitrate for 3mp full resolution? I have it set to variable instead of constant also if that matters..

 

[Karey Watson]

It seems on that camera if I go anywhere about 3-4000 max bitrate, it doesn't like it. I set it at 8k for the main stream (event) and walked out triggering motion and in the recording, I see pausing. Drop it down to 3 or 4k, smooth. Interesting it's only on that one camera, though. Maybe your idea on the ends may prove to be my case. I will try to get some punch downs and give it a whirl.

Still would be interested in what most people run there 3mp bitrates @

 

[tigerwillow1]

I have some rebranded Hikvision cameras and have found that then the bit rate is too high, the main stream just disappears, even though the web interface gives a nice happy-looking green checkmark when you set a bitrate that won't work. It's a frustrating situation. If you want a high bitrate for the best image you run the risk of getting no image at all. As for the cameras being different, the "magic" limit on the bitrate is at least somewhat dependent on what the camera is viewing. You'd have to swap cameras to see if that's the issue. I've had better luck using variable bitrate, but still have to keep it cranked down below what I'd prefer to set it at. The only way I know to find the acceptable bitrate is to experiment. Interestingly, in a Dahua camera I have, it tells you the allowable bitrate based on the other settings (frame rate, etc.).

 

[Karey Watson]

I have some rebranded Hikvision cameras and have found that then the bit rate is too high, the main stream just disappears, even though the web interface gives a nice happy-looking green checkmark when you set a bitrate that won't work. It's a frustrating situation. If you want a high bitrate for the best image you run the risk of getting no image at all. As for the cameras being different, the "magic" limit on the bitrate is at least somewhat dependent on what the camera is viewing. You'd have to swap cameras to see if that's the issue. I've had better luck using variable bitrate, but still have to keep it cranked down below what I'd prefer to set it at. The only way I know to find the acceptable bitrate is to experiment. Interestingly, in a Dahua camera I have, it tells you the allowable bitrate based on the other settings (frame rate, etc.).

Thanks for this!

Yes, I am seeing alot of what you mention. The most interesting thing is last night with a bit rate of over 12000, everything was humming along perfectly. It was only this morning that the issue started to rear it's head. I just installed the stuff yesterday so it isn't like it's been working for months and all of a sudden a problem, though.

I've done everything I can with the exception of redoing the end of the cable and/or as mla suggested putting a punch down w/ a patch cable or swapping the camera. The exact same model camera inside runs on that 12k bitrate w/ no problems (yet). There isn't much action going on where the camera with the issue is with the exception of it's outside. It's just sitting on the porch almost never triggering any motion. However, if I go any higher than 3-3.5k, it won't show up in the web interface. I also noticed the freezing in playback with it over 4000. I should also mention I am using variable bit rate, and not constant. I can watch the time on the camera though and see when it's skipping and anything over 3.5k for main steam normal and it does this or just won't display at all. The other end of the cable is punched down on a punch block, so there's that.

What bit rate do you find you start having this issue @ tiger?

 

[tigerwillow1]

With a 4.1 MP camera I've found a safe bitrate to be 8192 variable, with 10 frames/sec and i-frame interval at 10. I was going to poke around to give more info, and this morning I can crank the cameras up to 16k constant and the main stream stays there solid, which never happened before. Since fiddling with bitrate most recently, I've changed image settings and enabled IVS. Also, right now the image is almost totally white with snow and the temp is around 10. So I feel pretty clueless about what determines if a particular bitrate will work or not. Assuming your NVR is the same as mine, do you know about the Main Stream(Event) setting on the Video/Audio config page of the web interface? Check that one out. I dragged a laptop down to the camera location to run a speed test on the cable and it ran over 90 Mbps.

 

[Karey Watson]

What did you do to run the speed test to the camera w/ a laptop? I can access all of my network drops (including the cameras) right there directly @ the punch panel by the rest of my network equipment.

I do see the two different settings. Main Stream and Main Stream (Event). I was under the impression that the (Event) was for when something like motion occured so whatever you had set there would be what you are recording with? You know what they say about assuming though...

It's very hit and miss.. It was pretty solid @ 3k but sometimes even now it won't pull up. I am in the south so 20F is brutal for me, lol.. I may wait a day or two and probbaly try to take that camera down and swap it with the location in the house and vice versa. See if this issue follows the cable or the camera. It was a pain to get that RJ45 end on at the porch but pretty sure I got it crimped down good. I tried swapping ports on the poe switch, nada. I am thinking is definitely a cable or camera issue. The one in the house I threw it up to 15k for giggles and it just hummed along.

 

[Karey Watson]

Or do you mean you just ran an internet speed test?

 

[tigerwillow1]

I used lanbench for the network speed test. One machine acts as a server, then the other connects to it.

LANBench - A Simple LAN / TCP Network Benchmark Utility

Hardest part was balancing the laptop at the end of the camera cable. Guess I could have added a connector and long patch cable, couldn't think of that at the time.

 

[Karey Watson]

lol - I bet!

I will try this tomorrow since I plan to try to swap cameras around anyways to figure this out.

Thanks for all your input. It seems that there is for sure an issue. Even if we aren't able to throw them @ the higest bitrate we want having to have it down around 3k is indeed something not performing correctly. I'll update tomorrow on my findings.

Bumped it up to 8192 now that it's in night mode, works like a champ. Ugh.. Bumped it to 10240, fires right off. I am guessing perhaps because the image is less strenious on night mode. Idk..

 

[mfkap]

Did you ever figure this out? I am having the same problem, Hikvision 4MP camera with 8 port Hikvision NVR, substream always works, main stream works sometimes, can't come up with a setting to make it run consistently. I am using a prefab cable, but it is 100' and "flat" cat6.

 

[bamix]

mfkap,

If you lose the main stream and then power cycle the Camera does it come good ? What version firmware is on the 4MP Camera ?

 

[mlapaglia]

Try plugging your camera directly into the NVR with a manufactured cable (not self-made). If the issues go away your crimp job or the cable you ran are causing the issue.

 

[mfkap]

It becomes good for a few seconds after power cycling and then lose it again. I am already using a pre-fab cable, but it is a "flat" Cat6 100ft cable, so maybe that is the problem?

Another interesting thing is that it appears to be recording the main stream with even triggers, even when the live view doesn't display. I can play back 2 minutes ago and watch the main stream quality feed, even when live view wasn't displaying at that time.

 

[bamix]

Hey mfkap,

As mlapaglia mentioned, as a next step to qualify whether or not your cable is a problem you will probably need to take down your Camera and try it with a 'known good' patch lead at the NVR. You chimed in on this thread so there is no list or detail of what your set up consists of or any other prevailing conditions. I have seen problems even with brand new patch leads in the past but more often see problems with Cameras straight out of the box.

You will have to do a bit of component swapping in order to isolate where the problem lies. First, cancel out the cable as mlapaglia suggested and if the problem persists then swap the Camera for a known good one in your set up. If that fixes the issue then try the suspect Camera again but do a full reset on it first if you can to double check that it is not a settings issue. If you are still having problems then swap PoE ports at the NVR (if you are using one) to verify that. If you follow a simple process of elimination then you should get to the bottom of this quickly.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.