Motion Detection/SMD Questions/Issues

[HomeWPoe]

Been testing/using two EmpireTech cams with the DMSS iOS app. Having different motion detection/SMD issues in each cam:

1. Originally had a 1/1.8 4mp 3.6mm bullet installed in our driveway. There was enough ambient lighting that it stayed in color mode through the night. SMD human and vehicle alerts worked great, both day and night. Recently moved it to our porch where there's landscaping lights on a nearby walkway and a very dark unlit area next to the front door. In auto mode it stays in b/w and alerts on humans properly with no IR LED. Unfortunately, the front door area is too dark for proper vid coverage. Manually turned on the IR LED. Visually both areas look great. Unfortunately, the cam won't alert at all (no motion or SMD) with the IR LED on. If I turn it off it alerts (human detection) properly. Thoughts?

2. Using a 1/1.8 8mp vari-focal turret in our backyard. Receiving only motion detection alerts (mostly bugs). Receive no SMD (human detection) alerts. SMD (human/vehicle) notifications are turned on in the DMSS iOS app. Supposedly there's a way to turn SMD on/off and adjust sensitivity for human and vehicle? I've looked everywhere in the AI area (on both the 4mp bullet and 8mp turret) using an IP/browser and can't seem to find these adjustments. I see references to people/human/faces/vehicle under Video Metadata->Rule Config and Video Metdata->Global Config, but no reference to SMD or any kind of sensitivity adjustments. For what it's worth, I did turn on "track overlay". When playing back (in SmartPSS Lite) the "box" accurately tracks anyone walking into view. So I assume SMD is turned on in the camera internally. Suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[wittaj]

SMD sucks.

Most here use IVS.

Do not use both.

Turn off SMD and MD and try just IVS.

 

[HomeWPoe]

SMD sucks.

Most here use IVS.

Do not use both.

Turn off SMD and MD and try just IVS.

Thanks for the reply. Can you explain how. Didn't see any specific switches for turning SMD or IVS off/on in the AI area of the ip/browser. First time accessing this stuff so no doubt I'm missing something.

 

[wittaj]

From memory, I think it is:

Uncheck the MD box

Uncheck the SMD box

Select SmartPlan

Select IVS

Draw an intrusion box and select the AI you want to trigger on.

 

[bigredfish]

^^^^^
+1 Get off of MD/SMD

I trust you are in the actual camera web interface and not just the NVR GUI...

You'll find MD and SMD in the Events tab. Uncheck both and save


Then go to the AI tab and
1- make sure Acupick is OFF (may need to reboot the camera if you turn it off)
And choose IVs so it looks like this


Then click Next and go to the IVS rule page. This is where you set up IVS rues for the camera

 

[HomeWPoe]

@bigrredfish, @wittaj, thanks! This was so far off my radar. Had no idea all these options/switches existed. Not sure how I missed all this stuff in the Events section. @bigredfish, appreciate the screenshots--very helpful (and idiot-proof--lol!).

Creating the custom intrusion/detection zones using IVS is pretty cool Easy to see why most pass on MD and SMD.

 

[bigredfish]

IVS is simply more accurate with fewer false alerts.

It will take a bit to get it right, search around on the forum, but there are ok and better ways to draw IVS lines.

Start with an intrusion box and add a zig zag tripwire inside of it. This will generally be pretty efficient on picking up targets.

At night you still have to have enough light (white or IR) for the camera to be able to see

 

[jharrell]

Be aware that using IVS vs SMD will not generate standard Onvif motion events, this prevents it from triggering alerts in other software that expects motion alerts but doesn't understand the other various IVS onvif events such as Scrypted for HomeKit or Synology when using Onvif instead of Dahua profiles. Blue Iris works but you must tell it the specific onvif events because again they are not standard motion events.

Just something I have not seen mentioned on this forum anywhere and was very confusing since everyone says use IVS. I also found IVS much more tricky in getting setup correctly and honestly way overkill for what I want which is just alert me if a person or vehicle moves in the cameras view, which is what SMD does. If you do IVS intrusion for example with "appears" checked it will alert on vehicles appearing at night because is goes back and forth recognizing a vehicle thats parked without moving. if you do "crosses" then you need toleav room around the box near edge of frame to trigger it, just tell me motion anywhere my yard is not that complicated!

 

[bigredfish]

I've not had those problems with IVS on quite a few (hundreds) of cameras. But yes if you are going to use Synology you have to live with limitations

 

[steve1225]

Especially now, when Synology in latest OS upgrade killed all support for H.265 (and in many cases also H.264) in all Synology apps...
Also in Synology Surveillance Station...

Synology DSM 7.2.2 and Killing Off Video Station / HEVC Support Server Side

Synology EOL Video Station in the DSM 7.2.2. Update - Why, How, When and Should You Care? I generally don't make a big song and dance whenever Synology's more incremental software updates arrive. If you really get into the statistics of the matter, Synology rolls out numerous smaller updates throug

nascompares.com

 

[jharrell]

It's not just Synology, Scrypted is the same, IVS does not send Onvif motion events it sends more specific analytics events that most onvif software will not treat as a motion tigger, Blue Iris requires specific setup to look for those events.

Synology actually supports IVS directly with Dahua specific camera profiles and works well EXCEPT it wants to take control of the cameras and modify settings like stream parameters etc, switch codecs and all sorts of crap, if you deny admin access to the syno user it will throw errors and make camera go offline, in Onvif profile it is ok with no admin access but you lose IVS events only motion events work. No way to tell Synology to leave the camera settings alone, frustrating as is Dahua settings and both together....

Not going down the Blue Iris route as I am done running Windows for important stuff at home, the Synology is rock solid and has been for years long with being able to easily run docker and VM's for Scrypted and Homebridge.

Ubiquiti is doing Onvif support now but don't even support the standard motion events, they probably will at some point but would be very surprised if they went further with analytics events to support IVS.

Scrypted NVR looks great but again only Onvif motion then does its own object identification just like HomeKit.

I don't run H.265 anymore since its not supported by HomeKit anyway and Scrypted with HKSV is extremely nice for everyday use with Synology as the continuous record backup, just would be nice to have the Synology timeline clean.

 

[wittaj]

It's not just Synology, Scrypted is the same, IVS does not send Onvif motion events it sends more specific analytics events that most onvif software will not treat as a motion tigger, Blue Iris requires specific setup to look for those events.

BI can get ONVIF triggers with the check of two checkboxes.

Within the camera configuration the "Get ONVIF Trigger Events" box and under Triggers the "ONVIF/Camera Events" box.

I don't know if I would classify that as a specific setup. I guess it is in the truest sense of the phrase, but I wouldn't consider that difficult by any means...

Now if you want to do more with it, there are now some additional listening events to check on or off, but older versions of BI or simple ONVIF triggers and it is just a few check boxes.

 

[jharrell]

BI can get ONVIF triggers with the check of two checkboxes.

Sounds like a specific setup to me, geez come on guys, this isn't complicated, send a motion event if a person vehicle or animal moves in the cameras FOV, I don't care about vehicles that are parked or making sure my zigzag tripwires work or whatever other undocumented nonsense needs to occur to let me know something interesting is happening...

If its wasn't for this forum not sure I would even know whats going on here and realize everyone is using BI with IVS for onvif. Had to use onvif device manager to see what event the camera was sending to realize they weren't motion events, but instead ObjectInside with IsInside:true, thanks camera...

Anyway just letting everyone know your Onvif software probably won't see an IVS event, unless its BI and you check the right checkboxes for those specific events, because they are not standard Profile T motion events. So don't be surprised if you need to keep motion events on for most other implementations for animals anyway, you can use SMD for vehicles and people, weird I know and you will forget all this in a year when you add another camera.

 

[wittaj]

If you find that complicated....then yeah maybe BI isn't for you....

BI has excellent motion detection coupled with AI for those that want to go that way or one can use the AI of the camera....or both

Before AI was a thing with BI or cameras, I had very little false triggers with just BI motion detection because it was so customizable and way better than a camera or NVR motion detection could.

But then when I got a camera with AI, I found BI very easy to setup with ONVIF triggers from a camera and have had no issues with parked cars or whatever nonsense you are spewing LOL

I have never used onvif device manager to figure out what is triggering what...

Let's see I set up in the camera GUI for an IVS trigger for a person (oh I had to check that check box in the camera GUI) and then checked the two check boxes in BI....that was hard. I might not remember that when I add a camera next year LOL...

Geez....

 

[looney2ns]

Sounds like a specific setup to me, geez come on guys, this isn't complicated, send a motion event if a person vehicle or animal moves in the cameras FOV, I don't care about vehicles that are parked or making sure my zigzag tripwires work or whatever other undocumented nonsense needs to occur to let me know something interesting is happening...

If its wasn't for this forum not sure I would even know whats going on here and realize everyone is using BI with IVS for onvif. Had to use onvif device manager to see what event the camera was sending to realize they weren't motion events, but instead ObjectInside with IsInside:true, thanks camera...

Anyway just letting everyone know your Onvif software probably won't see an IVS event, unless its BI and you check the right checkboxes for those specific events, because they are not standard Profile T motion events. So don't be surprised if you need to keep motion events on for most other implementations for animals anyway, you can use SMD for vehicles and people, weird I know and you will forget all this in a year when you add another camera.

You're a prime candidate for a junk Ring cam system. Nothing hard at all to get onvif working with Blue Iris or any other modern vms. IVS does a great job of avoiding false alerts in Dahua cams.

 

[jharrell]

If you find that complicated....then yeah maybe BI isn't for you....

Yes complicated and running on Windows ins't for me anymore, been there done that.

Compare:



With Apples approach:



Yes I prefer the simpler approach, I think most residential / homeowners would.

I have never used onvif device manager to figure out what is triggering what...

The only reason I know ODM exist is due to the numerous post posts on this forums tell everyone to use it to diagnose issues so thanks...

Let's see I set up in the camera GUI for an IVS trigger for a person (oh I had to check that check box in the camera GUI) and then checked the two check boxes in BI....that was hard. I might not remember that when I add a camera next year LOL...

Did you turn off accupick because it eats cpu, and SMD and motion because thats not IVS, should you do video meta data? Is it in events, no its in AI, motion is in events but thats not going to give you animals only people and vehicles, go to IVS and be sure to leave enough pixel around the box so it considered it intrusion , how many? Not sure just enough, and be sure to draw enough zig zags on trip wires so its reliable... Then go to BI and get events and check the intrusion and tripwire and forget about the motions...

 

[jharrell]

You're a prime candidate for a junk Ring cam system. Nothing hard at all to get onvif working with Blue Iris or any other modern vms. IVS does a great job of avoiding false alerts in Dahua cams.

What other VMS supports the IVS onvif events? Seriously curious because all you guys talk about is Blue Iris.

SMD worked great for false alerts just doesn't support animals like IVS now does. Scrypted/HKSV works great just need to make sure you are using motion only and then you Apple TV does the AI analytics, can't take advantage of the camera AI, same with Frigate and Scrypted NVR.

 

[wittaj]

I thought it was common sense to turn off features one isn't using. Of course I turned off Accupick and MD/SMD because I am not using it. I want every little bit of processor power to go to what I am using.

Heck, when I started with BI it couldn't use substreams so I even had substreams turned off in the cameras. So when substreams became a thing, I figured the little extra processor power in the camera to run two streams was worth the savings on the CPU in the computer, which is was by a factor greater than 5!

I am using a BI version prior to all that listening jazz you are showing and I get ZERO false triggers just by checking the two check boxes....

Oh so sliders are ok, but checkboxes are too difficult LOL




Oh that is cute with Apple that you can just slide a slider to alert when a particular object is detected.



So is this an always on or always off scenario? In other words can you tell it to only alert you at night when people are detected but not during the day? Or do you have to have it always alert you or not alert you based on the slider position?

That is the problem with Ring - the alert sliders are a 24/7 proposition - you can't have it change alerts based on day or night. I would assume this is the same?


Hmm, I use an intrusion box with a perfect square with the box in each corner of the entire field of view and I capture everything. The appears checkbox does wonders in that regard. But it is a checkbox...



But maybe mine works because I have a field of view the camera AI was designed for and that is for people in the VERTICAL position and not the HORIZONTAL position like you have.

Field of view matters. Not trying to do too much with a single field of view matters.

And then I use the motion detection of BI to capture the animals. My cameras work for my needs, so I am not updating the firmware to get the animals checkbox LOL. I capture them all now with BI motion. Don't fix what ain't broke....


These types of cameras and BI are not intended for the average/typical homeowner. That is what Ring, Nest, Blink, Arlo, etc. are for that have fancy apps with sliders instead of checkboxes. But that simplicity comes at a cost of nighttime performance and ability to customize stuff, but obviously many do not seem to care about that as those systems are popular and those consumer grade systems are a perfect fit for those that want simplicity and not having to learn how to use a VMS system like BI or an NVR....


But like everything, YMMV. You said you found SMD to work great for false alerts, whereas I found that SMD sucks and like I said before AI, the BI motion detection customization was way better than SMD.

 

[jharrell]

I thought it was common sense to turn off features one isn't using. Of course I turned off Accupick and MD/SMD because I am not using it. I want every little bit of processor power to go to what I am using.

Nothing is common sense with Dahua settings, is Accupick required, will that trigger motion events? Will it trigger IVS events, no its something else but depending on the UI you use it might be required to be on before other options show up... Whats the difference between SMD and Accupick and IVS, does motion events need to be on for IVS to work? No they are separate and run in parallel but do similar things, but not the same things, not exactly, Accupick also runs in parallels and does something else with AI...

Oh so sliders are ok, but checkboxes are too difficult LOL

Its not checking two boxes, its which two boxes and why aren't those boxes in any other software, while everything else triggers off motion events, this is from a post where they turned them off thinking they where not necessary, the only way you know is by using ODM and watching camera or trial and error, or looking it up on this forum, which I thank you for that:

So is this an always on or always off scenario? In other words can you tell it to only alert you at night when people are detected but not during the day? Or do you have to have it always alert you or not alert you based on the slider position?

No it of course has very clear and useful settings for that sort of thing including using phone location to determine if you are home plus it even does facial recognition optionally using people from your photo library:

Hmm, I use an intrusion box with a perfect square with the box in each corner of the entire field of view and I capture everything. The appears checkbox does wonders in that regard. But it is a checkbox...

Great and yet every post here seems to say intrusion needs to have some sort of buffer around the box to consider it "crossed", that what I saw when I tried it, it triggered "appear" but my parked cars did that off and all on night too as it recognized them as a car then forgot and then recognized again, with no movement.

Why does every suggestion seem to have a spaghetti of tripwires? Shouldn't a single tripwire work or an intrusion box? Who knows?

 

[wittaj]

I am glad the Apple system is a little more advanced than Ring LOL, but I am sure it isn't as easy to set up as Ring either.

Again, my daily driver BI that all my alerts come from is BI version 5.5.6.15, which does not have the listen for options as shown below (although I do run a redundant system that is on the latest version and use these advanced features to do additional stuff in the backup system):




Here are the steps for simple camera IVS use in BI:

I am using the camera AI and simply selected the human checkbox for the IVS box I drew because that is all I want alerts on with this camera:



And then in BI I checked the "Get ONVIF trigger events" box because I want it to pull the IVS trigger from that camera.



And while still in that setup page in BI, I go to the trigger tab and checked the "Camera's digital input or motion alarm" because I want to pull the camera IVS rule.



Done.

I get the alerts I want and don't get alerts for things I don't want.

As I said in your thread awhile back that apparently you deleted (or someone else had a field of view just like that and was asking why the IVS wasn't working), when you have the camera oriented such that the AI was not designed for horizontal people, it was designed for vertical, then yeah it will be problematic.

It is only if you want to start getting fancy with multiple IVS rules does the listen for options become valuable and needed. But one simple IVS rule, nope it isn't needed.

Like everything, YMMV, but I do not find this process difficult to set up.