N3ewb to Surveillance Systems

dlbzone

n3wb
Jan 12, 2025
4
1
USA
Hello,

I have been considering a home surveillance system for years. Imagine my hidden excitement, when my wife turns to me over Christmas holiday and says, "I think we need security cameras." Then imagine my hidden disappointment, when she mentions her coworker has a $500 PoS WiFi-Cam subscription system that I should look into.

...and so it began.

I am an electrical engineer and do not want to piss around with junk that barely works, isn't reliable, and I can't store or even own my own video. I also don't like subscription models in general.

That said, I have two kids in college and a budget of $2000 max and the need to design this correctly out of the gate is important.

I use Ubiquiti Unifi networking at home today so began by looking at their solutions. I can add a UNVR for $299 and a 8TB drive for another $200. I have a switch with some open PoE ports that might be enough to get me started. There are sufficient options for cameras with AI Turret $399 and G5 Pro Bullet models $379. They also are advertising 3rd party ONVIF support. However, when starting to look into it a little deeper the Unifi Protect solution looks like its not fully baked. The main features look good if you use their default settings for the most part, but as soon as you need anything beyond default, the cracks start to appear. Also, availability is poor. I almost pulled the trigger, but the camera I wanted to start with was sold out. I probably need 5 cameras minimum at ~$400ea plus NVR and Drive is $2500 plus.

Next I began looking at the kits like Lorex, Reolink, and Annke in the $600-$1200 range. Digging into it, I found that Hikvision and Dahua were the market leaders and had cameras with better specs and features for a little more money. While digging into it further, I found that to get the performance I would want, I probably also would want a better NVR than came in the base kits. In videos I watched, and pricing I checked, I began leaning towards Hikvision. I narrowed NVR to DS-7616NI-M2/16P for $395 plus a 2TB drive for another $200. Then I would probably get a mix of five or six 8MP cameras in the $200-$300 range for under $2000 total, with room to expand as needed. Then I came across all this NDAA stuff. My application is residential, I don't work for the government, and I plan to keep the system isolated from the internet, using VPN anyway, but I see evidence of these companies reducing focus on the US market and have genuine concern about long term product support.

Next I started looking at NDAA approved solutions and they just don't appear at all competitive for anywhere near my budget so I'm not sure how I will proceed.

Thanks in advance for pointers to any good threads where this path has already been hashed out and any thoughts and recommendations that anyone can provide!
 
Welcome!

Since you are in the USA, you will find a much better selection of Dahua cameras that are on ideal MP/sensor ratio's than Hikvision.

That is the big problem with those kits you looked at and the Unifi cams. Many here started replacing those big box store kit systems within a year. Even the Unifi fans here say their cameras suck and they are stoked that 3rd party cameras are starting to be allowed in the system.

Another problem with the kits are they are all the same camera (wide angle 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams) and that rarely results in a decent system.

You didn't mention a PC/Blue Iris as the VMS/NVR. You should look into that as well.


This thread is used as the go to for the NOOB here outlining the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value/best bang for the buck in terms of price and performance day and night. It might be a 2MP camera in some instances.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

And coupled with that thread is this great thread which will show why all of the same 2.8 or 3.6mm cameras is the wrong choice:

i-want-2-8mm-cameras-everywhere-to-see-everything-this-is-why-you-need-specific-fovs-with-purposeful-focal-lengths.70053/

We would encourage you to look at those threads in detail. You will also see that 8MP isn't all that. Many find 4MP to be the sweet spot in MP performance. But focal length is important also.


As I mentioned, most feel that at the moment Dahua has the better selection of cameras. Fortunately a well-respected member here @EMPIRETECANDY sells international versions of Dahua OEM cameras that we get a great deal (not paying for the logo) on his Amazon store, his own website, here on the forum, and via DM. The links in my thread above go to his Amazon page.


As you pointed out, the NDAA ban doesn't impact you.

We have had many people come here thinking they need to get NDAA complaint stuff because some article scared them and in most instances once they learned what NDAA really meant and who it applied to and how poor the cameras perform, they then went and got Dahua or Hikvsion OEM as they represented the best overall value in terms of cost and performance.

The real issue that NDAA doesn't address is EVERY camera can be hacked, even NDAA cameras and NVRs. Don't let your cameras touch the internet and you won't have a problem.

Block the cams from the internet and go with the best bang for the buck and that will be Dahua and Hikvision OEMs.

Well known NDAA compliant companies have been hacked, thus showing that the ban and only using NDAA compliant devices like Verkada doesn't protect you if you give them internet access.

Sadly, too many companies have jumped on the NDAA bandwagon and sell subpar performing cameras and NVRs at a premium price all under the disguise of being secure, which they are not.

It is why we recommend DO NOT LET YOUR CAMERAS OR NVR TOUCH THE INTERNET. You isolate them via VLAN or dual NIC.
 
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We have a Vendor here from Hong Kong, EmpiretechAndy @EMPIRETECANDY that has a Amazon Presence and a website. I was skeptical of this at first, and went with an uniformed opinion and bought other cameras from Amazon that turned out to be Subpar in features and function.
Then after buy some newer analog Amcrest cams to upgrade a legacy Condo system, I decided to go to IP cams, mostly because there isn't much you can adjust with an analog cam.
 
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Here is what blue iris console looks like on a 1080P monitor, with my Dell Precision tower with an i7-8700.
Running Tailscale VPN to my BI App on my mobile phone.
it took me quite awhile to get around to exploring all the things these guys said I needed to do.
As a result ilived a long time with excess motion events that could have been filtered through the AI built into the cameras
I'm mostly Familiar with Andy's products and another Dahua OEM in the us ( Amcrest).
If you can get your wife to understand the "easy button" isnt a good solution
and show her how to navigate the BI app on her phone, In time she will see that it's easy to use.image_2025-01-12_211747053.png
 

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We have a Vendor here from Hong Kong, EmpiretechAndy @EMPIRETECANDY that has a Amazon Presence and a website. I was skeptical of this at first, and went with an uniformed opinion to Amazon and bought what turned out to be a Subpar PTZ. ( mostly because the Chine translation to English in the menus was unclear.)
Then after buy some newer analog Amcrest cams to upgrade a legacy Condo system, I decided to go to IP cams, mostly because there isn't much you can adjust with an analog cam.

And to be clear, he means cameras other than from Empiretech that let him down LOL.

Many of us went down the path of big box store kits and have boxes and boxes of used cameras that we ended up replacing within a year.

Some noob come here and listen and learn and buy once/cry once.

Others come here, crap all over the advice, and buy $2,5000 worth of Reolinks LOL.
 
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No wifi for the home security system, if for some place that is really hard to bury the cables, then use a wifi camera, or else will have endless troubles and sure poor pics.

We have some hot selling kits, can make a reference.

 
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The brains that created the NVR GUI's have/had a funny way of displaying menus and accessing features.
I've got experience with 2 Nightowl analog systems and 2 Amcrest NVR boxes.
At the time I was wearing many hats as a Condo mgr.
The time it took to look up and save and transfer an "incident" was very time consuming and frustrating.
( There HAS to be a better way)
When I begrudgingly tried Blue Iris, I was estatic to see how quickly I could find motion events and upload them to
the Ramsey County Sheriffs web site or sometimes @looney2ns they would record a video of my console and leave.
 
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There are some slick Apps on the store kits, but like you mentioned, they have a subscription model with cloud(slow) playback.
and very little control over your video storage.
They force you into thier Ecosystem, with products that " only works with Our Recorder " type of Gotcha's.
 
No wifi for the home security system, if for some place that is really hard to bury the cables, then use a wifi camera, or else will have endless troubles and sure poor pics.

We have some hot selling kits, can make a reference.

Hi @EMPIRETECANDY ,
If I order from the empiretech01.com website, where does the product ship from? I am in Pennsylvania, USA and the address on the site says Homer City, PA.
Thank you,
dlbzone
 
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Hi @EMPIRETECANDY ,
If I order from the empiretech01.com website, where does the product ship from? I am in Pennsylvania, USA and the address on the site says Homer City, PA.
Thank you,
dlbzone
Most shipment from our amazon warehouse across the US, normally shipment comes in different lots, which is nearby then ship from where.
 
Most shipment from our amazon warehouse across the US, normally shipment comes in different lots, which is nearby then ship from where.
The empiretech01.com site says additional transaction fees may be added. My concern is if this ships from Hong Kong, I want to know what additional fees there will be in advance. Tariffs, Customs, Duties, etcetera? If the product is already in the US, then there should not be additional fees other than State Sales Tax. If it helps, I am looking at Kits 4, 5, or 6 probably with 16P and 4CAMs. Listed at $1299.
 
aha, that is because sometimes the credit card company add a little transaction cost,(several dollars) so we have to declare this, some guys thought we charge it.
We met sometimes but not too much, no worry will be no tax, because all ship from local US.