Need help to get right IP cams for a small surveillance at my house.

Patrick Fortin-Ducharme

Patrick Fortin-Ducharme

n3wb
Aug 5, 2016
9
0
Hi,

I bought a new house last summer (2015). I do love it, but I feel the need to add some surveillance, you know, just in case :) I started asking questions on another thread, but i feel that I should start my own thread, so here it is. I'm IT guy, working in computers since last 18 years, so i'm pretty technical.

I don't know anything about Camera, lens, IR, PTZ, etc. I know lens are measure in mm (?) but I don't know what's benifit from one over the other :) I don't have a NVR or camera yet. I would like a centralized NVR that will records from all the cameras, and allow me to access with iOS or Android apps (needs both). Also, something that can run "headless" and that we can access from Win10 device in Chrome or Edge when Local or remote. I have a 940Mbps / 110 Mbps Internet speed, so the speed is not an issue.

I would like to get some recommendations on IP Cam (brands, Models, type) for at least 1080p, great night vision (not too grainy), NVR on how you would, the expert, add surveillance for this small piece of land :)

House view (currently, 2 empty lands each side of the house)

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Front porch Up and View

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Garage and front left side of my land

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Backyard + Deck view

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Other side of the house + closest neighboor

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Most important questions...

What's your budget?

Are you comfortable running cable, installing the cameras and setting up the NVR/Network yourself?
 
I'm comfortable running cables, i'm not the fastest to do it, but I can do it with help of a friend. Setting up PoE, NVR, Network, no issue for me. I work in IT and deal with networking stuff for a living, so PoE switch (NVR with built-in PoE Switch), port forwardings, etc., no issue for me.

For the budget, lowest as possible since the new house cost me a lot :) I want to have the "minimal" in term of what I cover. Also, I don't want to have too much cams and draw lots of attention. Somewhere in the acceptable i would say :)

I really don't know how much it cost for good 1080p+ cams (4K is probably too expensive). Is 100-120$ per cam a possibility ? And maybe 3-4 cam max to cover the most of the place ? (1 each side that catch the garage access door and the window, the basement window, one on the deck and one for the front ?

The NVR, I suppose It should be able to keep everything for 3-4 days at least ? maybe more if configured as "motion recording only" ?
 
Look at the 4MP Dahua Turrets, they are under $100 each.. the biggest mistake people make is installing 2.8mm cameras the first time around.. thats really going to only work next to your front/back doors as at night they cant identify people farther away than a dozen feet or so... driveways usually want 6-12mm optics and the rest of the the parameter cameras are often best with 4-6mm optics.

learn to use: http://ipvm.com/calculator and keep PPF > 100 if you want any hope of getting an ID at night.

HDD's are cheap, I have 7 cams recording 24/7/365 and I can fit damn near a month on a couple of HDD's.. motion recording is a pita and sets you up to miss important events.. heck I sometimes only have audio of gunshots or an wildlife that would have never been recorded w/out 24/7/365
 
Listen to nayr. He speaketh wisdom. The biggest hurdle is learning what an acceptable ID picture is and how to maximize your chances of getting one. First on the list is good lighting. Second is lens choice. Third is camera choice, dependent on budget. All of those can be ruined by poor camera location, so keep that in mind as well.
 
nayr said:
Look at the 4MP Dahua Turrets, they are under $100 each.. the biggest mistake people make is installing 2.8mm cameras the first time around.. thats really going to only work next to your front/back doors as at night they cant identify people farther away than a dozen feet or so... driveways usually want 6-12mm optics and the rest of the the parameter cameras are often best with 4-6mm optics.
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Any specific models of Dahua Turrets ? (model numbers please!) there is so much models! If I resume :

1 x Dahua 4+MP Turret 1080p w/2.8mm for front porch
1 x Dahua 4+MP Turret 1080p w/2.8mm for deck sliding door area
1 x Dahua 4+MP Turret 1080p w/6 to 12mm for driveway
1 x Dahua 4+MP Turret 1080p w/4 to 6mm for right side (the side with basement window)
1 x Dahua 4+MP Turret 1080p w/4 to 6mm for left side (the side with garage window and access door)

Is that making sense ?
 
2.8's are good for wide areas, like the front and back yards. but for the front door and back deck doors, u want at least a 4mm to get a decent picture of anyone entering.
 
PSPCommOp said:
2.8's are good for wide areas, like the front and back yards. but for the front door and back deck doors, u want at least a 4mm to get a decent picture of anyone entering.
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I disagree, front and back yards are too large.. better off having a couple of blind spots and focusing on points of interest with higher optics to get that ID shot.. wide angle works best on patios next to doors where people are passing within feet of the camera or indoors where distances are not that big.. Beyond 15' you have no hope of getting an good ID shot at night using wide angle.. dunno about you but my yards are several times deeper than 15'

If you want a wide angle overview camera mounted up high, go for it.. but do it last after you have all the choke points covered.. as it's not going to do much for your security as you think.
 
nayr said:
I disagree, front and back yards are too large.. better off having a couple of blind spots and focusing on points of interest with higher optics to get that ID shot.. wide angle works best on patios next to doors where people are passing within feet of the camera or indoors where distances are not that big.. Beyond 15' you have no hope of getting an good ID shot at night using wide angle.. dunno about you but my yards are several times deeper than 15'

If you want a wide angle overview camera mounted up high, go for it.. but do it last after you have all the choke points covered.. as it's not going to do much for your security as you think.
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Sorry I thought it was understood that's what I meant with the second part of my comment. 4mm or higher for doors and entryways.
 
Don't listen to Nayr! :)

If you're a tech guy Patrick you would L O V E Blue Iris NVR software (which nees a Haswell or Skylake i5 or i7 to run really well). In addition -- and IMO smiley9.gif -- those Longse IMX178 sensor cameras (the LBW90S500 gigantic-bullet and the LRDC60S500 turret) can't be beat for the price. In addition, the Huisun Mini PTZ is a great unit for spaces you need to surveil with a vari-focal lens (yes it has some issues which will cause many to trash it).

My advice is that you skip the NVR appliance and use Blue Iris instead, then piecemeal your cameras.

Blue Iris isn't simply good software...it is outstanding software.
 
Patrick Fortin-Ducharme said:
So how many cams? 2.8mm or 4mm? You both seems to not agree?
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If you want a wide area covered, like a backyard or someplace, spend money on another 2.8mm. Otherwise, go with 4mm/6mm for all entry/exits or chokepoints as nayr said. As he points out in his previous posts in other threads, its not necessary to cover 100% of your property with subpar video quality, when you can use fewer cameras that cover all the common entry ways. Seeing a burglar coming from the back part of a yard is great if you're watching it real time and get notify the police to respond while he's still there. But realistically its better to use cameras at the places they are most likely to make entry, and use cameras good enough to make out their identifiable facial features so hopefully the police can identify and then prosecute them.

I'd go with a 4 or 6mm above the doorway facing the steps/driveway. I'd also put one under the eave above the garage door facing the driveway to cover all vehicles there.

There isn't much need for one above the Central Air unit you have as there aren't any ways to get into the house there (at least that I can see from the pictures).

4 or 6mm camera for the deck/sliding glass door entry. I'd say depending on where you mount it, a 6mm would work great.

It might also be worth buying a 4mm and a 6mm for now, running the wires to where you anticipate mounting the cameras and getting them up and running. Have a family member walk in and out of various doors and see if the 4mm coverage is good enough to identify them in both day and night time. If not, swap it out for the 6mm and try again. If you think its good enough great, if not, try ordering a 12mm and see what ya think. That will save some money/time/effort then buying all the cameras at once and finding out they aren't doing what you want them to after installation.
 
Nice house and location! Nice spiderwebs also ;) Yeah, for most people that want bang for the buck, I'd recommend the Dahua turrets.

4mm or 6mm work to catch the details of someone at a choke point. Wide angle allows you to monitor exactly what they're doing. I'd normally recommend 6mm with a 1/3" sensor unless too tight - then I'd recommend 4mm. For catching plates, 12mm can work if aimed with vehicles coming or going away from camera, but 50mm or more can be necessary for angled captures.

What I'd start with:
4mm at front door
2.8mm front general surveillance (a single 4mm may not cover your entire front porch?)
4mm wall-mounted for back door
6mm on rear left side of house go catch garage side door and window

Future additions:
Front left of house aimed at stop sign as a license-plate cam. 12mm-50mm depending on where you want to catch the plates. 12mm may work before the curve, and 50mm would work well at the stop sign.
2.8mm rear general surveillance
4mm or 6mm wall-mounted right side to cover basement window

Then anything else you feel like. I have full coverage around our house and in the garage - more than necessary. Most are general surveillance. They are essentially tree-shadow, squirrel, and racoon cams.

Run more wires than you think you'll want. You can never have enough and it's cheap to do once. Run pull string and pull the wires with it. I ran 6 cables to each corner of our house and it's borderline enough on a couple corners for everything I want. Do you want to add some additional infrared emitters? POE is the easy way to add up to 25W of light per wire. Security lights or sirens? Easy with POE. Other projects? POE and networking makes that easier. I'll be setting up raspberry pi's and TI microcontrollers at each corner of our house. Rapidly, those 6-wires run to each corner get used up. We ended up adding 20A circuits to soffits at the corners of the house to have less reliance on the CAT6 runs.
 
thank you guys for comments on the house :) Me and the wife really like it (except spiderwebs that we always remove and they always come back) ;)

I don't know if it make any difference to the recommendations, but I live in Quebec with lots of snow, and temperature as low as -30 celcius (about -22 Farenheit).

I never pulled cables, but where I should pull them from ? I know I can make them go outside the house from the basement, under the deck, and then I can route them along the side of the house, but how to make them not visibile ? that will be the toughess part I suppose :S
 
Patrick Fortin-Ducharme said:
I never pulled cables, but where I should pull them from ? I know I can make them go outside the house from the basement, under the deck, and then I can route them along the side of the house, but how to make them not visibile ? that will be the toughess part I suppose :S
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This is why I demanded our new house be 1-story - much easier to DIY, even with the attic only being roof trusses/vaulted ceilings.

Ideally, you'd run pull strings with some fiberglass rods, then attach and pull the cables through the walls. Depending on what your access is like though, other options are running wires under the siding, or externally and painted-over. You could also hire an electrician or low-Voltage person to run the wires for you - they know all the tricks and may run them for around $100 (USD)/each. That's the least labor-intensive way for the homeowner, and they could leave the pull string for you to run more cables yourself later if you desired.

Yeah, we have a lot of spiders also, backing to green space and a stream. This year I started using bug zappers and spraying the foundation with Bifenthrin oil - we rarely have webs this year, and are very rarely finding spiders indoors. Last year we'd have a dozen webs a night and catch a few spiders running around indoors everyday.
 
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