DanDenver
Getting comfortable
The link you provided indicates no mic. You may have to reach out to the seller to confirm one way or the other
Need some help from the seasoned vets, I can't look at any more data sheets.
- Thread starter Coal_Cracker
- Start date
There is one of looneys videos on the linked page that has sound. If it doesn't have a mic, the page really needs to clarify that.
They sell two versions - one with a mic and one without.
The IPC-T2231T-ZS does not have a mic and is $15 cheaper than the IPC-T3241T-ZAS that has a mic.
The IPC-T2231T-ZS does not have a mic and is $15 cheaper than the IPC-T3241T-ZAS that has a mic.
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What is the advantage of a 2mp 1/2.8 vs a 4mp 1/1.8 indoors? Is it just price and/or size, or is there some aspect of indoor performance that the 2mp matches or bests the 4mp?
Both of them are on the ideal MP/sensor ratio, so you really can't go wrong.
All things being equal the 4MP will outperform, but price is always a concern for our budgets. Inside where the distances are not as great and you benefit from infrared bounce off the walls, the 2MP can perform well, or many of the cameras that are not on an ideal MP/sensor ratio like 4MP on the 1/2.8" sensor - but this is indoor. Outdoor stick with the ideal MP/sensor ratio.
All things being equal the 4MP will outperform, but price is always a concern for our budgets. Inside where the distances are not as great and you benefit from infrared bounce off the walls, the 2MP can perform well, or many of the cameras that are not on an ideal MP/sensor ratio like 4MP on the 1/2.8" sensor - but this is indoor. Outdoor stick with the ideal MP/sensor ratio.
I definatly referenced this graph for my decision on the 2mp and 4mp cams. It really makes things so much more easy with some basic knowledge what to look for. Plus this will be a bit of testing and tweeking between all three cams to see which ones work best for the scenario.
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Well I bought them. I can't wait to test everything out. Should be fun, new pc server new cameras first time using blue iris. I will definitely be doing a bunch of test runs in different locations. I'm very curious to see how they all perform. It's one thing to read a bunch of threads and then another to actually play with and tweak them.
DanDenver
Getting comfortable
I used to be a event/wedding photographer, so I came to the security camera field looking for tack sharp images day and night. Thus my penchant for high MP cameras at first.
But I have learned better now and am super happy with the images I record.
I am hoping you will have a happy path to success as well!
But I have learned better now and am super happy with the images I record.
I am hoping you will have a happy path to success as well!
^+1 This!!!!!!
We often tell the NOOB when they come here and post that they have experience with DSLR cameras that they might have to forget what they know about DSLR and high end photography cameras LOL as they play with these. Almost everyone that has come here with experience in DSLR cameras struggle with these cameras, and many fall for the more MP is better!
It is just a matter of managing the expectations of a cellphone camera or DSLR camera versus a surveillance camera.
Every one of these surveillance cameras have more processing of the images than a DSLR camera or cellphone camera. Some are worse than others. Then there is the compression of the video, etc. Turn off NR on one of these cameras and you will see how much processing is used.
You will find a BIG difference between photography equipment and these cameras. Digital zoom works better on regular cameras than these. The sensors and optics just are not at the same level.
These cameras are designed for 24/7 use with abuse from the elements.
DSLR cameras or a cellphone are designed for a different working environment and purpose. Hang a DSLR camera outside and see how long it lasts LOL! But the quality would be better for the time it was working (but also a lot more storage needed too).
Another example, you can see individual hairs and skin pores with DSLR photography equipment or even an iphone camera and you won't with these kinds of cameras. These are for a different use and different expectations.
We often tell the NOOB when they come here and post that they have experience with DSLR cameras that they might have to forget what they know about DSLR and high end photography cameras LOL as they play with these. Almost everyone that has come here with experience in DSLR cameras struggle with these cameras, and many fall for the more MP is better!
It is just a matter of managing the expectations of a cellphone camera or DSLR camera versus a surveillance camera.
Every one of these surveillance cameras have more processing of the images than a DSLR camera or cellphone camera. Some are worse than others. Then there is the compression of the video, etc. Turn off NR on one of these cameras and you will see how much processing is used.
You will find a BIG difference between photography equipment and these cameras. Digital zoom works better on regular cameras than these. The sensors and optics just are not at the same level.
These cameras are designed for 24/7 use with abuse from the elements.
DSLR cameras or a cellphone are designed for a different working environment and purpose. Hang a DSLR camera outside and see how long it lasts LOL! But the quality would be better for the time it was working (but also a lot more storage needed too).
Another example, you can see individual hairs and skin pores with DSLR photography equipment or even an iphone camera and you won't with these kinds of cameras. These are for a different use and different expectations.
- Sensor Size - a full frame DSLR sensor size is 864mm^2; whereas a 1/2.8" sensor popular on many cameras would be 20mm^2, so the "real" camera can collect over 40 times more light than a surveillance camera. And this doesn't even account for less light available for an 8MP versus 2MP for the same size sensor.
- Shutter Speed (Exposure) - Taking a picture with a "real" camera, you can slow the shutter down to 1/2s or longer for a nice clean picture of a person not moving. Perps rarely stand still and we need a shutter of at least 1/60s to minimize the blur.
- Aperture - With a "real" camera you focus on a specific part of the field of view, while a surveillance needs to focus on things in the foreground and background, which means the aperture is smaller, further compounding the light issue.
- Compression - A single 8MP image from a "real" camera could be upwards of 5MB of storage. In surveillance cameras, if you record at 15FPS, every second of video could be 75MB or more, which could equate to 6.5TB per day per camera. Obviously most are not going to have that kind of storage, so lossy compression algorithms are used to reduce storage and network bandwidth requirement, and that can add noise.
- Environment - a "real" camera is used mainly under ideal conditions, whereas a surveillance camera is going 24/7 in every type of element, so the design and size impacts its capabilities.
Do you happen to still have some of your photography equipment? If so, I think a great add-on to your thread with the chart on sensor sizes would be to show one of those cameras sitting next to a surveillance camera and then a compare/contrast of roughly the same field of view with that camera and a surveillance camera.
It is always interesting to me that photographers use these big @$$ lens to capture action at an NFL football game that is within 100 yards of them, and we expect to get that same quality at 100 yards with a camera that fits in the palm of our hands LOL.
Those large cameras allow you to get shots like this from 40 yards away with more clarity and ability to digital zoom than a surveillance camera.
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I have to tell you I thought the same at first too. Especially if you try and find info on you tube or just look at the main stream kits for sale. Now that I go back and look at the specs of lets say two different cameras I had thought of purchasing. The Annke C800 1/2.5 8MP and the Reolink 820A 1/2.49 8MP I'm pretty sure I would have been sorely disappointed.
The whole reason I stumbled on this forum was because I was trying to figure out a way to use two different camera brands with one NVR. I then realized I'd have to build a PC and run Blue Iris which led me down the rabbit hole of this forum and what to actually expect from security camera footage.
One more admission I do also have a full frame Canon DSLR and before my sons were born was an avid landscape photographer. I wasn't going to say anything because I saw people get shredded on here for it. LOL I thought best if I go by my grandfathers favorite saying "keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut"
But anyway thanks to everyone for helping me choose some cams I shouldn't be disappointed with to get started on my project.
Here is a sensor chart with the specs on two popular DSLR rigs as you asked @wittaj @DanDenver Canon EOS 6D vs. Canon EOS 5D Mark III - Sensor Comparison
I shoot the 6D most wedding photographers shoot the 5D. I never liked people enough to want to take pictures of them. I like to go into the woods by myself away from everyone and take pictures of trees and mountains. I spend to much time in the city for work.
The whole reason I stumbled on this forum was because I was trying to figure out a way to use two different camera brands with one NVR. I then realized I'd have to build a PC and run Blue Iris which led me down the rabbit hole of this forum and what to actually expect from security camera footage.
One more admission I do also have a full frame Canon DSLR and before my sons were born was an avid landscape photographer. I wasn't going to say anything because I saw people get shredded on here for it. LOL I thought best if I go by my grandfathers favorite saying "keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut"
But anyway thanks to everyone for helping me choose some cams I shouldn't be disappointed with to get started on my project.
Here is a sensor chart with the specs on two popular DSLR rigs as you asked @wittaj @DanDenver Canon EOS 6D vs. Canon EOS 5D Mark III - Sensor Comparison
I shoot the 6D most wedding photographers shoot the 5D. I never liked people enough to want to take pictures of them. I like to go into the woods by myself away from everyone and take pictures of trees and mountains. I spend to much time in the city for work.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
To clarify for future readers, the 3241 mentioned in this thread, does indeed have audio, it also has AI.