New cam, night performance tips

nonono

n3wb
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I just installed this 5442 (thanks Andy!) this afternoon. I was hoping I would get more light from the two porch lights in the backyard in order to identify people better in the yard and the garage at the back of the yard. I was hoping to even be able to run it in color like many of my other cameras, but there's not enough light. I'm looking for tips to improve night performance. I can pretty easily add visible or IR light to the garage wall at the back, but maybe there's other things to try first? Thanks. Any tips from camera config up to adding new lights are appreciated.

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wittaj

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Adding more lights are always a good thing.

Trying the IR on manual and 100 is another way - but sometimes you have to run Smart IR to tone down the wash out.

Now in terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures. These are done within the camera GUI thru a web browser.

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 

nonono

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What are the downsides to backlight? I ask because that made a massive improvement to static image, but I know that might be at the expensive of actually identifying moving objects,
 

wittaj

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Yes, backlight will improve the night time static image, but motion will be a blur. If you use it, use it as low as possible. But try other options to mitigate it before going to it.
 

nonono

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Thanks for the tips. I got a decent static image with a 25ms shutter, 50 gain, and 50 WDR. I'm worried that I jacked WDR too high for motion, but I'll run it for a few nights to see if it's acceptable before I get out there to hang better lights. One mitigating factor is that in order to show up on this camera someone would either be a known person or have to pass by some other cameras with much better ID lighting, so maybe some blur is acceptable for better "day-to-day what's going" on wide angle performance.

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If you are not going to use a 5442 to get good face shots and are using it for just a wide-angle overview cam, then you are not using your cams or money efficiently. There are cheaper cams that will give you an overview that will blur at night. This use is really a waste of a perfectly good 5442. Redeploy that cam elsewhere for ID purposes.

Showing a static image to anyone who you are asking for help really tells us nothing. Walk the FOV and post a still from that walk. Then we can help you dial it in.

Also, I suspect that this cam is mounted too high for a face shot.
 

trapper

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just a suggestion what would happen if you lower the camera a foot or 2 . you will definitely improve your field of view. I originally made the mistake of mounting my cameras too high trying to hide them. I was getting more of a top of head view of people instead of a frontal view. Can you go just below the header beam that runs above the stairs. you will definitely pick up ample light when lowering the camera
 

Alaska Country

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This is an example of a Dahua 5442 mounted on a fence post 40 inches above ground. The camera is setup for color day/night. See provided PDF for settings. Zoom set at 23 mm determined by calculation.

There is a street light on the silver pole plus a 15 watt white LED garden 12 volt lamp for extra illumination that is mounted on the house to illuminate the area on both sides of the fence for night operations. IR is not being used.
Day-5442.jpg

Night-5442.jpg
 

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nonono

n3wb
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Thanks all for the tips. I got around to doing a motion test and it was garbage. Went back to the drawing board based on these tips and now I've got WDR off and shutter speeds in the 8-16ms range across all my cameras now by paying more attention to gain, bright/contrast. My images are obviously much grainier now, but overall more they seem more acceptable for surveillance purposes. Without going too far, is it fair to say that it's worth it to accept more noise than might look "good" to get faster shutter and better identification? @Alaska Country 's photos of night time in particular sent me down that path.
 
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Without going too far, is it fair to say that it's worth it to accept more noise than might look "good" to get faster shutter and better identification?
Remember, we are not making a Hollywood movie. The goal is to get meaningful info on the perp. That may be descriptions of the clothing including colors, tats, hair, missing limbs, and of course that perfect face shot that will stand up in court. And of course, info on the perp's car. If a grainy face shot is the best you can do but it is good enough to positively ID the perp, you have succeeded.
 

nonono

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So I've had a few nights running some of these new settings and I wanted to share an alert I had a bit ago. This alley has some decent street lighting and my neighbors have some motion lighting that hits anyone who walks by (you'll see it turn on at very end of clip). I have two cameras covering both directions of the alley. One really benefits from the motion lighting, but this clip I'm posting is from the side that doesn't get much help.

I feel like this clip is fairly useless for ID. But, I'm not sure going to IR would help any. It's mounted ~8' off the ground. Going lower isn't an option because this alley is pretty hoppin' on the weekends and I've had dudes take swings at cameras before so I want to stay out of reach. It's a 5442 zoomed in to ~12mm.

As always, I'm looking to learn and improve my setup. Thanks!

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View attachment alleysecam.20230208_202630_1.mp4
 

wittaj

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You must have that turned fairly down the alley for the 5442 to basically be zoomed all the way in and still not have a close capture.

Could you turn it a little left or is this more for overview see what is going on down the alley?

A few things I see is that you have some of the parameters too high and that is going to cause issues like we see. You may not get IDENTIFY, but you would get closer.

I see some pixelation and some see-through.

Realistically you should try not to go more than 10 or so above the default. 80 brightness and 79 contrast is causing issues and basically is negating the faster shutter.

Remember the goal is to get a clean capture, not bright images.

Looking at that I would try brightness at 50 and contrast at 58. The 5442 seems to do better when the contrast number is 6-8 higher than brightness.

Leave exposure comp at 50

I would try gain at 50.

I would drop 3D NR to 36.

Now what is going to happen is the image is going to get darker. But, do the subjects get cleaner with the darker image.

It is always difficult to go from something that bright to darker, but after a few days you get used to it.

I was there once too and favored the brighter image.

But clean captures are what we are going after, and when there is more contrast and the parameters are closer to the middle, the camera stands a chance to get that clean capture.

After you get that clean capture as a picture, it is easier to lighten the picture a bit and still keep the details than the other way around.
 

wittaj

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Wow do you have a lot of light! I was expecting it to be a lot darker. Jealous of your light!

Ok, so at 60% you have some more zoom to get IDENTIFY if you want, but I also recognize that this might be more of an overview intent.

But maybe zoomed in all the way and adjusting the camera up just a tad may still get you the overview with some identify.

And if it is still getting that see-thru ghost, then start dropping gain a few numbers at a time.
 

nonono

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Sorry I deleted my last image because I noticed the settings didn't save. Sorry for confusion. Here's the actual image from your suggestion. Dropping gain hurt the hardest. Added the zoomed out shot for reference again too.

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nonono

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I think you make a good point about zooming in more. It creates a deadspot between the two cameras, but perhaps thats better practically. I'm still trying to shake my "bright 180 degrees!" newb tendencies :). I'm getting to the point where I might start literally putting overview and zoom cameras next to each other.
 

wittaj

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OK that is more like it LOL.

I would raise gamma to 50

Try gain at 55

You could bump shutter to 16.67

Bump brightness to 52

Yeah that bright 180 degree is a great look, but it fails every time when something happens.
 
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