New Camera System

[Maconi]

After doing some research, I'm considering purchasing 4-5 of these:

Hikvision DS-2CD4A85F-IZ(H)(S)
http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_509_i5569.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-English-version-DS-2CD4A85F-IZ-4K-Smart-Bullet-Camera-Support-128G-on-board-storage/32653757126.html

I know a lot of people like turrets vs bullets but it doesn't seem like Hikvision has a large sensor (good night vision)/4k turret?

First, is that the cheapest price that model can be had for (and is CSST Wholesale Market still a trusted AliExpress supplier)?

Second, The camera claims 60Hz: 22fps (4096 × 2160). Will one of these NVRs be able to support 4-5 of the cameras @ 4k 22fps or am I looking at building a custom PC/PoE switch with Blue Iris?

http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_214_i5730.html

http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_212_i5729.html

Third, what kind of bracket/junction box setup would go with this turret so that it could be ceiling mounted (but end up in the same orientation as if it were wall mounted)?

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[dalepa]

$700 each? That seems crazy and I don't see any great videos anywhere showing off the night vision of these cams.

You can get a nice speed dome for that price, or 5 Huisun 10x's


3: But if you must, this turret should be able to swivel close to 90deg, so should not be a problem mounting on the ceiling with a junction box.

 

[Maconi]

I agree that the prices seem ridiculous. I'm not sure I really need any PTZ or smart functions. All I'm looking for is a good day/night camera which means I'm looking at a large sensor (better low-light performance) and higher MP (better general clarity). The variable focus doesn't hurt I suppose.

Something I've noticed is that the specs say the camera is "PoE (802.3at)" and "Max. 12 W".

Power Supply:	12 V DC ± 10%, PoE (802.3at)
Power Consumption:	Max. 12 W

802.3at is PoE+, not regular PoE. Regular PoE is 802.3af. Also, PoE is 15.4W whereas PoE+ is 30W.

So which is it, does anyone know? It's important because the difference between a PoE and PoE+ switch is a few hundred dollars (assuming I go the switch/PC route vs NVR). They also have limits on the maximum watts they can provide over PoE so I need to know if the cameras are going to be pulling 12W/15W/30W/etc. so I know how much power capacity I'll need.

 

[tangent]

you don't need 4k. More lower res cams would probably be more useful. 4-5MP is pretty good, 8 is overkill.

 

[Maconi]

you don't need 4k. More lower res cams would probably be more useful. 4-5MP is pretty good, 8 is overkill.

Oddly the 6MP version of the camera (with a slightly smaller sensor/worse low-light performance) is more expensive. Not sure why?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-English-version-DS-2CD4A65F-IZ-6MP-Smart-IP-Outdoor-Bullet-CameraSupport-64G-on-board/32654230001.html

The only other camera that Hikvision has with a large sensor that I know of is the 2MP Darkfighter. Otherwise I'd agree that yeah 4-5MP would probably be plenty. Not sure why Hikvision doesn't have more large sensor options like some other (less reliable) brands like Longse and what not.

 

[Del Boy]

"(with a slightly smaller sensor/worse low-light performance)", these two aren't correlated like that. Larger sensor doesn't mean better low-light performance. It can mean that but doesn't have to mean that.

 

[tangent]

probably better off buying some powerful ir illumination.

 

[Del Boy]

probably better off buying some powerful ir illumination.

This, plus it's much cheaper.

 

[tangent]

"(with a slightly smaller sensor/worse low-light performance)", these two aren't correlated like that. Larger sensor doesn't mean better low-light performance. It can mean that but doesn't have to mean that.

The size of the pixels on the sensor has a bigger impact on low light performance. This is why sometimes a 2MP will outperform a 4MP in low light.
For the same size sensor, as you increase megapixels you decrease the size of the pixels in the sensor.

High MP cams like your 8MP even with a larger sensor (like a 1/1.8) still have smaller pixels than say a 1/3" 4MP.

Certainly lots of other parameters come in to play as well.

 

[Del Boy]

The size of the pixels on the sensor has a bigger impact on low light performance. This is why sometimes a 2MP will outperform a 4MP in low light.
For the same size sensor, as you increase megapixels you decrease the size of the pixels in the sensor.

High MP cams like your 8MP even with a larger sensor (like a 1/1.8) still have smaller pixels than say a 1/3" 4MP.

Certainly lots of other parameters come in to play as well.

It's not correlated like that. That's called coincidence. That's the problem with small sample sets and statistics. I rolled a die and it was 1, I rolled it a 2nd time it was 2. Rolling it a 3rd time doesn't mean it'll be 3 or a higher number. You can't draw a line of best fit with so few results.

"This is why sometimes a 2MP will outperform a 4MP in low light." No, no, no, the no, no, the no. Most 2MP that outperform 4MP are because the 2MP are Sony IMX222/322 and the 4MP are Omnivision. This has a much bigger impact on it than the sensor sizing. The 1.3MP Dahua performs even better at night and has a smaller sensor.

It's better to compare actual sensors than just say, oh this one is 1/1.8" so will be better at night than a 1/3" because it might not be.

 

[fenderman]

= The 1.3MP Dahua performs even better at night and has a smaller sensor.

For the record the 1.3mp dahua that i believe you are referring to has a 1/3 sensor. It has the best nightvision I have seen so far.
https://www.use-ip.co.uk/datasheets/1521/dahua_ipchfw2100p_13mp_hd_network_mini_irbullet_camera.pdf

 

[tangent]

It's better to compare actual sensors than just say, oh this one is 1/1.8" so will be better at night than a 1/3" because it might not be.

Sensor size / sensor pixel size DO have an impact on image quality and noise. You'll easily find hundreds of articles to this effect regarding digital cameras.


I agree that it's more complicated than that and just because a camera has a slightly larger sensor doesn't mean you'll see drastically better results. Some people have said the 1/3" sensors in hik/dahua are actually 1/2.8 or 1/2.5. The differences between 1/3, 1/2.5, 1/1.8 are much smaller than the difference between say a 1/3" and 4/3 or 1 in a mirror less still camera, as a result the relationship to camera performance is less pronounced than it is with larger still cams.

 

[Q™]

I had a bad experience with CSST wholesale market China (Mainland). This guy sold me 7 good cameras but the 8th, 9th and 10th arrived with badly hacked firmware and all 3 cameras were caught in an endless reboot loop. I asked the guy to fix it and he played dumb and accused me of not knowing how to configure the cameras. He also insisted I "send pictures." Huh? I recommend that you stay away from "CSST wholesale market China (Mainland)." There's mucho bad Qarma there bro. Bad. Bad. Bad.