New IP8M-2779EW-AI - strange non moving white specks on night vision or low light situations

C

Crunchtime2k

n3wb
Jun 14, 2023
14
7
Usa
i just installed a new 2779ew and i have these strange specks all over on night vision , almost like there is table salt in front of the camera. its completely clean.

i will post a picture , zoom in and you can see it easily , defective camera or just junk? or normal?

opinions wantedsalt specks.jpg.
 
That is unfortunately somewhat normal.

You have a budget 8MP shoved on a 1/2.8" sensor which is a perfect sensor size for 2MP.

So that camera needs 4 times the light of a 2MP on the same size sensor, so the firmware introduces a lot of noise and specs to try to brighten up the image because the sensor isn't getting enough light.

Now there are some things you can do to mitigate it a bit by trying not to do too much with one camera. You need to concentrate on the sweet spot of a 2.8mm focal length camera of about 20 feet or so unless you plan to use this camera as an overview and not be able to IDENTIFY out at the street.

In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures.

You need to get off of default. You only think they look good because your camera hasn't been tested yet with a middle of the night perp. Even a great camera like the 5442 on default settings will result in motion blur ghosting at night and then all you can tell the police is what time it happened.

These are done within the camera GUI thru a web browser.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 
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thank you for the great reply , i did have the codec and bitrate settings as you suggested already.

however i did alter the shutter and gain per your settings for night , it is nearly black. i have to put gain at 100 to get something half acceptable with a 0-8.3ms shutter.

It does have a shutter priority option that seems to really try hard to keep shutter speed below 25 ms and a good image , it will give priority to shutter first then gain.

they also have a gain first then shutter. i will do some testing tomorrow night with a person.

so what's a good 8mp with a nice wide 125*+ FOV and a good sensor? these camera was indeed cheap. $85 delivered.
 
Yeah that is the problem with the budget cams. They can look great on default/auto settings and give a nice bright static image, but then motion is a blur.

We have these cameras because we want to be able to IDENTIFY a perp, not just know what time they came by and door checked.

Amcrest is made by Dahua, so a Dahua OEM 8MP camera should be on a larger 1/1.2" sensor or larger.

The 4K/T is the leading contender, but it costs more than $85 but can give incredible color images at night with fast shutter speeds.


Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED / IPC-Color4K-T - 2.8mm Turret

Ok, who's ready for not only a review BUT another World's First Review ? You heard it here first, new camera in hands and almost ready to review. Thanks as always goes to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) for providing this camera in exchange for a fair, honest, non biased, no holds barred review. I’ve...
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But something else to think about is that sometimes less MP is better.

You need to decide what area you want to be able to IDENTIFY someone and get the correct cameras for those distances.

In your image above, no 2.8mm fixed lens camera will give you IDENTIFY at the street or car in the driveway.

But if you want this camera view to be an OVERVIEW to be able to keep an eye on things, then that is one option as well.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...
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Yeah for overview you will be fine.

and yeah that PTZ you ordered is fun. I have had one for a few months now.
 
Probally going to return these amcrest 2779ew cameras , they have very odd digital blur and noise issues as some have reported , they also stutter.

Thinking of spending more and getting

EmpireTech Turret 8MP IR Smart IP Eyeball POE and ePoE Camera,Support SMD 3.0,IVS,Face Detection, Built-in Mic,Fixed-Focal IPC-T5842TM-SE S2 2.8mm


should have better clarity and night vision with IR ? Confirming
 
As I said, do not chase MP.

Folks that have both the 5442 4MP camera the 5842 8MP camera, which are both on the same size sensor, have shown in threads here that the 4MP is better at night. Which makes sense as the 8MP on the same size sensor as a 4MP will need double the light to produce the same image.

1686839318233.png

Now unfortunately, except for a $1,000 Axis camera, there is not a sub $300 4K camera on the ideal 1/1.2" sensor that can see infrared.

Whenever we have had an incident at night, it is my 2MP cameras that provide the best image to the police.

Get the correct focal length for the area you want to IDENTIFY or provide OVERVIEW for, and then find a camera on the ideal MP/sensor size ratio.
 
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Yeah I totally get that , daytime performance is terrible also , I’m trying to address that for $200 if possible
Motion has strange digital blur , it seems this was a issue others had with this camera here also.
 
Consider putting some low voltage landscape lights around. Even 1 watt led lights will make the camera's job significantly easier. Having your house lit up also makes it less attractive to burgars. I've heard cops say the best thing you can do is get rid of bushes near the house, second best is get some landscape lights. Of course that was before giant autotracking ptz cameras were available...
 
Gimmons said:
Consider putting some low voltage landscape lights around. Even 1 watt led lights will make the camera's job significantly easier. Having your house lit up also makes it less attractive to burgars. I've heard cops say the best thing you can do is get rid of bushes near the house, second best is get some landscape lights. Of course that was before giant autotracking ptz cameras were available...
Click to expand...
Already do , it’s pretty extremely well lit all around, which is not saying much about that camera and it’s night performance
 
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Crunchtime2k said:
Probally going to return these amcrest 2779ew cameras , they have very odd digital blur and noise issues as some have reported , they also stutter.

Thinking of spending more and getting

EmpireTech Turret 8MP IR Smart IP Eyeball POE and ePoE Camera,Support SMD 3.0,IVS,Face Detection, Built-in Mic,Fixed-Focal IPC-T5842TM-SE S2 2.8mm


should have better clarity and night vision with IR ? Confirming
Click to expand...
I 'm looking for an 8mp w/ 1/2" and when I asked Andy, he recommended this with a 3.6mm. Keep us up to date if you get one and post sample day/night pics/video.
 
wittaj said:
As I said, do not chase MP.

Folks that have both the 5442 4MP camera the 5842 8MP camera, which are both on the same size sensor, have shown in threads here that the 4MP is better at night. Which makes sense as the 8MP on the same size sensor as a 4MP will need double the light to produce the same image.

View attachment 165555

Now unfortunately, except for a $1,000 Axis camera, there is not a sub $300 4K camera on the ideal 1/1.2" sensor that can see infrared.

Whenever we have had an incident at night, it is my 2MP cameras that provide the best image to the police.

Get the correct focal length for the area you want to IDENTIFY or provide OVERVIEW for, and then find a camera on the ideal MP/sensor size ratio.
Click to expand...
Do you have info on the Axis with a 1/2" sensor?
 
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