New member that is lost

dbis44

n3wb
Apr 22, 2022
1
2
US
New member here, was looking at getting a security camera system for the perimeter of the house. Currently have a ring door bell by the front door and two ring spotlight cams by the garage and backdoor, they work well and I use it to trigger outside lights when motion is detected.

The Ring system only records when motion is detected and I was looking for a 24x7 system to supplement it. Would like to cover any windows and my yard. I started the journey by looking at a complete Reolink or Lorex system, but since I like to research technology before purchasing I ended up here. There is a lot of good information here, but it is almost too much information as I keep considering different scenarios. I had assumed incorrectly that most systems would be good enough to record day and night at at 50ft or so to get an identification. I don't mind putting a system together with better cameras than come in a typical kit, but even recommended cameras don't seem to be that great in low light conditions and I am wondering if it is worth the effort and cost to get what appears to be marginally better performance. I would like cameras with spotlights for the deterrence factor as it is much easier to run the Cat6 cable than it is to install new electrical wiring for floodlights.

So a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with:
  • Is there a decent kit out there from any of the vendors with good support?
  • If I use PoE, is there any measurement of how much power the cameras will draw? Are typical NVR's capable of powering all their ports (assuming same brand cameras) as I don't see their max rating or the ratings for the cameras.
  • If I piece together a system, I was considering having two of the cameras being an Annke NC800, the large sensor sounds good but I can't find good reviews for it. Annke also has an AC800 for pre-order, but don't any information on it at all.
  • I am considering using my PC with Blue Iris, has enough CPU/Memory/Storage and now a days I only use of for basic office work and web browsing. Any concerns running Blue Iris on a PC that's not dedicated?

Thank you
 
Keep in mind that the cameras used by most here are prosumer grade not consumer grade. As such they need to be carefully tuned to fit the view that they cover. The other important factors are the sensor size versus resolution and the focal length, lens size. To identify, positively identify, at 50 feet it takes a 12mm or larger lens.

Here's the minimum size for sensors versus resolution for good night video. Remember these sensors are relatively small when compared to a DSLR. They are fractional so they can be very deceiving since it's actually an inverse.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Focal length is critical. It is best to get one varifocal camera, set it up in a test rig and test out locations during both day and night. By test I mean have someone walk around and see if you can identify them, actually identify them versus already knowing who they may be. Here are two charts to put things in perspective. These are approximations but close enough to be useful and practical. If you go the varifocal test camera route, there is a converter in the Wiki to convert the "zoom number" into an approximate focal length to get a fixed lens camera. Besides being less expensive than a varifocal, a fixed lens is generally faster, lower F stop, than the complex optics of a varifocal/zoom.

DORI is -

Detect - see movement
Observe - see what is going on
Recognize - Be able to determine who by familiarity
Identify - Be able to see enough detail to provide positive identification for legal purposes

dori.png

lens sizes.JPG

The current crop of reliable cameras that provide good night video when properly tuned to the environment they observe -

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera


5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

3241T-ZAS Review
 
Welcome to the jungle! I second everything @sebastiantombs stated above.

As far as motion lights, they do not deter. There are plenty of posts that show perps ignoring them when they come on, so do not get your hopes up that they will make perps run away. Now to answer your questions:

  • Is there a decent kit out there from any of the vendors with good support? NO. There are good kits. Most do not have good support. Most kits have only one type of cam and are generally wide-angle FOV cams.
  • If I use PoE, is there any measurement of how much power the cameras will draw? Yes, most cams will have this info on their spec sheets. Are typical NVR's capable of powering all their ports (assuming same brand cameras) as I don't see their max rating or the ratings for the cameras. It depends.
  • If I piece together a system, I was considering having two of the cameras being an Annke NC800, the large sensor sounds good but I can't find good reviews for it. Annke also has an AC800 for pre-order, but don't any information on it at all. Not sure what you are asking here?
  • I am considering using my PC with Blue Iris, has enough CPU/Memory/Storage and now a days I only use of for basic office work and web browsing. Any concerns running Blue Iris on a PC that's not dedicated? Most people here discourage using a BI PC for other things, and for good reason. Even if there is enough memory and CPU to carry it, other apps running can slow down the PC, and if they cause your PC to abort or reboot, you lose BI, even if you have it set up to restart BI, you do lose some info. When you need to trouble shoot something, having other apps running complicates things. But some folks do run other things on their BI machine and get by.
 
.. I started the journey by looking at a complete Reolink or Lorex system ..

Hi @dbis44

If you need good low light performance, do not go the Reolink route ( see the numerous Reolink threads we have here on that topic )

Lorex, their recent offerings of camera models now have smaller sensors - so I don't see much from them that I would recommend at this time.
 
Most here find that cameras with floodlights are gimmicky and ends up causing problems with image exposure. But the consumer grade companies sell a lot of it because people think a two-in-one is better than two separate.

Further, motion activated lights are bad for surveillance cameras.. What happens is then the camera is momentarily blinded and you lose the ideal capture when the lights kick on and the camera adjusts from basically no light to a lot of light.

But they are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:




1649380885121.png




Some cameras can take 20 seconds to adjust and the perp would be long gone.

See this thread showing the importance of getting the correct focal length for the distance you want to cover:

 
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