New NVR or should I go Blue Iris?

[Perplexed]

Was wondering if ya'll could help me make a decision....

Current Setup:
-13 Revo 4MP POE Cameras .265 @25fps w/Audio (Well, mix of Revo and Uni)
-Revo 16 Port NVR
-4TB HD x2 (raid/mirrored)
-4K HDMI cable run to living room
-VGA cable run to dedicated monitor in office

Unfortunately, after about 5 years my NVR is starting to die. Half of the POE ports don't.... POE, so Ive been using an external injector for about 2 years. Now, a random camera will drop several times a day.

Im torn between doing another NVR and doing a Blue Iris Deployment.

Short of buying another Revo, I've had trouble finding an NVR that can do the following (at a reasonable price):
-Record 16 4K cameras (for an eventual camera upgrade) at 25fps
-.265 (or better/.265+)
-4k video out (HDMI)


Which led me down the rabbit hole of looking at Blue Iris. I really like some of the features, but am having trouble figuring out what hardware I would need to make everything happy. Currently, I don't have any computers that run Windows; so I'd have to buy something to dedicate to it.

Blue Iris Desires:
-Support for 16 4k Cameras @25 FPS (future plans & all)
-ability to live view 9 cameras simultaneously via VGA/DVi/DisplayPort/HDMI (I'm okay with only having one display and ditching the feed to the living room)


So far, it looks like Id need an i5/7/9 8th gen processor and likely 32 gig of ram. I'm no too terribly worried about disk space as id offload the video to a file server for long term storage (locally). I would like to be able to run some of the AI features of Blue Iris if I went this route. I already have a few 1g POE switches laying around, so that's not a problem if I go that route.


Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[wittaj]

People here run 50 cameras with BI on a 4th gen just fine with 16GB of RAM.

Many will say buy the higher processor as they are more efficient and you can update to Win11 in the future. I say if you can find a 4th-7th gen cheap enough go with it. We shut off Windows updates anyway.

16 cams - Dell Optiplex 9020 or NVR5216-16P-4KS2E

Hello! I am trying to spec a system for about 16 cameras, with a 2-3 week retention. I have only set up two Blue Iris systems so far, both using the Dell Optiplex 9202 method and installing a 4 TB hard drive (literally ripped out of a Seagate Portable 4TB External Hard Drive HDD and installed...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Perplexed]

wow, that's a little shocking that the older systems do so well.

Was looking at some of the micro PCs and other SFF. Ideally run windows/BI off an SSD and then salvage the 2-4TB HDs out of my NVR (very healthy drives) and put them in the windows box.

This would be a 100% headless system (once deployed), ideally with the PC tucked away in either a rack or in my server "cabinet".

Ill keep reading and learning, thx for the reply!

 

[DanDenver]

I ran an NVR for 5 years. Several of my friends had BI at work. But I did not move until after 5 years of NVR ownership, seemed like a hassle to move to BI.
However, once I initiated the move I found that both solutions are equitable in the amount of work it takes to get them up and running.
The difference is that (for me) BI brings a lot more to the table in terms of configurability than I even knew existed or was possible

Note I made this switch right when BI natively integrated AI. If you don’t have AI in your equipment chain somewhere - well… you may want to carefully consider why you want such an antiquated system.

My Security camera install went from meh to yeah overnight. It now adds value and I can argue that I can now be proactive about someone trespassing onto my property day or night.
With the NVR it was basically a historical recording device as it could in no way be configured to provide actionable information to me.
I would review the previous nights recordings every morning in order to determine what may have happened.

With BI I just wait for an alert that means I need to take action.
The difference is and was dramatic for me.

It all depends on what you are protecting and what security means to you.

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT !

BI fan here as well.

Just be aware that many micro PC's and NUC's have laptop-grade CPU's that are throttled back to keep temps down. That's a good thing for components, especially HDD's but not for BI's performance.

There are many SFF's that will suit but check internal space for those 3.5" HDD's for video clips; some on this forum have attached the SSD with double-sided foam tape. BTW, you are correct: Windows, BI and BI's "db" folder go on the SSD, video clips go to the spinners, preferably surveillance-rated like WD Purple or Seagate SkyHawk.

Here's some MORE reading! ==>> Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris and Optimizing CPU in BI and Sub streams with BI

 

[Perplexed]

BI sounds like the way to go; while I never had an incident (that I'm aware of) on my property - we were able to use my street facing camera to ID a vehicle that vandalized my neighbors property. That was only reactionary tho; with trees swaying, motion detection has been somewhat useless.

Okay... so im gunna go BI - now to find the right system. HP 800 G4 looks good....

 

[Perplexed]

Welcome to IPCT !

BI fan here as well.

Just be aware that many micro PC's and NUC's have laptop-grade CPU's that are throttled back to keep temps down. That's a good thing for components, especially HDD's but not for BI's performance.

There are many SFF's that will suit but check internal space for those 3.5" HDD's for video clips; some on this forum have attached the SSD with double-sided foam tape. BTW, you are correct: Windows, BI and BI's "db" folder go on the SSD, video clips go to the spinners, preferably surveillance-rated like WD Purple or Seagate Nighthawk.

Here's some MORE reading! ==>> Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris and Optimizing CPU in BI and Sub streams with BI

Here is where im confused ref sub streams -

is BI only recording the sub stream, or is that to make viewing easier? I want to record full quality, but am 100% okay with viewing a reduced resolution "live"

 

[DanDenver]

It can all be configured in BI. Whatever you prefer is what you can set it up to do.

 

[TonyR]

Here is where im confused ref sub streams -

is BI only recording the sub stream, or is that to make viewing easier? I want to record full quality, but am 100% okay with viewing a reduced resolution "live"

To reduce CPU usage, most set to record continuously on sub stream but began recording main stream as soon as motion is detected but as DanDenver said, it's configurable.

 

[DanDenver]

You can watch main/sub live (up to you)
you can record main/sub (up to you)
you can send main/sub to the AI (up to you)

You need to answer: What is important to you? What are your hardware limitations (if any)? What makes you happy?

 

[Perplexed]

Damn I love how active this forum is.

Being that im going to buy a new (to me) computer for this; Im not too picky on hardware - Id like to keep the system under 1k - not taking into account HDDs

Recording 13 4mp cameras 24/7 at main is the primary goal - im okay viewing sub. Id likely use sub to send to the AI as well. Frame rate is huge for me; in the example of the issues at my neighbors house, frame rate was key - took frame by frame reviewing to get an entire license plate - not sure if a lower frame rate would have sufficed on that one.

Id like to not have to buy a new PC if im going to upgrade to 4k cameras in the future

 

[wittaj]

With the substreams it makes almost every computer possible. All the AI downgrades the mainstream to sub anyway, so you don't have a choice there LOL. Prior to substreams, yeah you would need a beefy computer.

You can get a used business class coming off a lease for under $250 that will be fine. The one I got looked brand new and not a speck of dust inside or outside. A member here picked up some 4th gens from a school auction for like $40. Can't beat that.

Shutter speed is much more important than FPS. I run my LPR at 8FPS and have never missed a plate (other than the obvious missing or dirty that no camera would have picked up).

We would love to see more about your incident if you still have the footage - day or night, camera model, settings, distance to plate, etc.

 

[Perplexed]

oh, that was well over a year ago - footage is long gone.

Was about 50 yards to the vehicle, at night. Fortunately, my neighbors driveway lights provided enough illumination to get what we needed. Really was ideal circumstances for that situation. the IR illumination on these Revo are not great, normally its just enough to see the vehicles in the driveway.

Took exporting the video to my laptop and doing some frame/frame analysis and then cleaning up the image to get what we needed. Turned out to be his son's ex-girlfriend that was a bit.... upset. That confrontation phone call was epic

 

[wittaj]

What focal length and model on the Revo - 50 yards is a long way for even better varifocal cameras. It must have been completely ideal with enough light and no movement and sounds like with a "known" car that you could guesstimate the plates. We need to know if this was ideal condition fluke or if there is a better way to capture plates.

We run fast shutters to capture plates by taking advantage of the reflective properties of the plate. All we see are head and tail lights and the plate. Normal shutter speeds and the IR will wash out the plate.

Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night with a 1/2,000 shutter and 8 FPS of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.

 

[Perplexed]

Not sure what the focal length is on the Revo, ill have to dig that up at some point.

And it was completely ideal; I've looked at a lot of camera systems over the years (retired LE) - and rarely do you get lucky like that. They parked for about 5 min and were throwing stuff at the son's car.

 

[Smilingreen]

I have 8 cameras running on dedicated 4th Gen I5 running Win 7 Pro. CPU load is around 12%. When I have an event, it records at full res, but normal viewing is sub stream. System works perfectly. Too bad BI didn't work on OSX.

 

[Perplexed]

God I wish BI worked on Linux or OSX.... that would really make this a no-brainer.

Looking at this little guy:
HP i7 8700 32 gig - seems like it would do the job well.

Other option is a 9th gen i5 with 16 gig of ram.

Thoughts?

 

[Perplexed]

ended up ordering that i7.... guess im going blue iris LOL

Will install a NVME SSD as its missing all drives.

 

[looney2ns]

ended up ordering that i7.... guess im going blue iris LOL

Will install a NVME SSD as its missing all drives.

You'll like that machine, I just received last week an I5-8500 version of that machine, that I've been burn in testing the past week for my daughter. Runs good.
The machine I received looks brand new, inside and out.
Keep in mind all you will need is a 256gb or so m.2 drive, that's plenty big for windows and blue iris to live on.
Then add one or two WD Purple Drives, size of your choice.
Configure drives like this: Blue Iris Storage configuration
Be sure to use MS Media Creation Tool to install Windows.
Good luck!

 

[Perplexed]

Appreciate that, ill knock that out - I have some time before the computer gets here, at least.

Picked up a 500 gig m2 drive with some good specs for $50 - can't beat that.

Need to figure out if im going to run the 2 storage drives as a mirror'd set (protect against failure) or just use the extra storage space. Decisions, decisions, decisions...