New security setup with house plot

[handyandy]

This is a very rough diagram of my house and plot that I will move to (attached).
The lights in the diagram will be on a sensor - so only ON when it is dark. I don't know how bright they will be yet.

My intentions for security are to deter, and to be alerted to motion events that my wife and I can immediately view and then save/download on our Android devices. Identifying number plates is not a priority and actually the aim is to only view outside our property and not beyond.

I am still all over the place with what security setup to get.
Ranging from ring elites (best usability and most wife friendly but poor night video quality).
My current favourite is on Reolink nvr, cx410 cameras and their poe doorbell (the cx410 seems to be better for low light/night). I think the main thing that puts me off with the cx410 is that it doesn't 'look' like a professional solution. I'd prefer a turret style design and without cheapy branding.

When I start to explore alternatives I seem to hit roadblocks. Just to try to explain my troubles... For instance the dahua equivalents nvr seem to be sold with a fan that needs to be replaced with a quieter one. Its not so clear to me which nvr is even needed. Or the cameras are not showing a clear image unless you are a few meters away. And that basic wife friendly usage e.g.when away from home, get a notification, click a button to view / download - seems to require quite some extra efforts.

Irrespective of money I have been unable to find a polished fine solution that gives me confidence as of yet.
What would you do, given a budget of lets say max 2000euros?

 

[TonyR]

So the lights come on at night and off at dawn and are NOT motion-activated?
At what height are the lights mounted?

Don't have the cameras facing those lights, the lights can/will blind the cameras. Instead place the cameras below or above them, depending on the height of the lights.

Also be advised that most "full color" cameras and the reolink CX410 need some visible light, either ambient or its own spotlights, to see. If there is too little ambient visible light it must use it's built-in white LED lights and it cannot see IR even if you were to install external IR emitters. The "full color" cams than can see IR usually include them, the specs will say so and will state that the minimum ambient light they need is 0 lumens.

 

[wittaj]

If you think Ring is bad at night, wait till you see the Reolink...

Many will say Reolink has one of the better apps out there and easy to use for the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) (they invest in the app experience over the quality of the cameras), but night performance is poor.

The better camera manufacturers figure people will use another platform for their VMS needs so they don't invest a lot in their app whereas the consumer grade cameras know the app experience will be what drives sales and they invest in the app.

The consumer grade companies invest more in their app experience because that is what is driving their sales are a consumer that wants the ease/simplicity/simple setup and app more so than camera quality.

Nothing in this arena is true plug-n-play if quality and able to IDENTIFY is important.

All cameras need to be dialed in to the field of view. Even the best cameras left on default will result in motion blur and ghosting at night. It is the same process for the dialing in the camera regardless of the VMS (NVR) system used.

If you want true plug-n-play simplicity and do not care about nighttime motion quality, then go with one of the consumer brands - Ring, Arlo, Reolink, Nest, Blink, etc. They are true plug-n-play because those cameras all run on default/auto settings with very little, to no ability to change camera parameters. But they do usually meet the WAF criteria.

Simply download their app and scan the camera QR code and you are up and running, with a better app experience also.

But their plug-n-play simplicity comes at a cost of nighttime performance and ability to customize stuff, but obviously many do not seem to care about that as those systems are popular and those consumer grade systems are a perfect fit for those that want simplicity and not having to learn how to use an NVR.


While the CX410 is on the proper MP/sensor ratio (4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor) with a large f1.0 aperture, it would be a steal if it worked like other full color cameras.

Sadly, it appears to suffer from the same issues of reolink, which is poor night quality and ghosting, etc. And look how washed out the camera on the right is when the lights kick on.

Is missing a leg normal?

Are these captures that could IDENTIFY a person? Looks like the person is close enough that a Dahua could provide IDENTIFY quality.

But it benefits from the light turning on with motion. Wonder if the camera gets momentarily blinded...yep....

Here is the unofficial master thread where people have put up their best attempts at night captures of objects in motion with a Reolink. As you will see, this will only tell the police what time something happened.

Thread 'Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"'

Aug 28, 2020

Executive Summary:
DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product.

• Test your cameras and kits right away.
• Just do a bench test.
• Test real world conditions.
• Test moving suspects.
• Test at night, test at day.
• Use a test rig to place cameras at positions which you plan to place the cameras.

Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)
The Hook Up

4:30 - Mentions Blue Iris "NVR" interface is much better but probably not $600 better...

• mat200
• Replies: 387
• Forum: Chit-Chat

• 
• 
• 

 

[handyandy]

So the lights come on at night and off at dawn and are NOT motion-activated?
At what height are the lights mounted?

Don't have the cameras facing those lights, the lights can/will blind the cameras. Instead place the cameras below or above them, depending on the height of the lights.

Also be advised that most "full color" cameras and the reolink CX410 need some visible light, either ambient or its own spotlights, to see. If there is too little ambient visible light it must use it's built-in white LED lights and it cannot see IR even if you were to install external IR emitters. The "full color" cams than can see IR usually include them, the specs will say so and will state that the minimum ambient light they need is 0 lumens.

Thanks for your comments. The lights will be constantly on when it is dark and off when it is light. It works with an adjustable light sensor so I can make the lights come on sooner or later based on the ambient light levels.
The lights will be mounted about 2meters high and should be pretty soft. They are the sort that shine up and down next to the door if that makes sense. I don't know for certain until I move in, but I am not expecting a bright glare on the camera. I expect it to be beneficial in that it supplies enough background light for the camera(s) to work OK during night. But will find out soon.
The cameras will be mounted in these positions that ive marked because I have already arranged wiring tubes to be in these positions. The cameras will be at about 2.5meters and mounted into a small overhang that sticks out about a foot.

 

[handyandy]

If you think Ring is bad at night, wait till you see the Reolink...

Many will say Reolink has one of the better apps out there and easy to use for the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) (they invest in the app experience over the quality of the cameras), but night performance is poor.

The better camera manufacturers figure people will use another platform for their VMS needs so they don't invest a lot in their app whereas the consumer grade cameras know the app experience will be what drives sales and they invest in the app.

The consumer grade companies invest more in their app experience because that is what is driving their sales are a consumer that wants the ease/simplicity/simple setup and app more so than camera quality.

Nothing in this arena is true plug-n-play if quality and able to IDENTIFY is important.

All cameras need to be dialed in to the field of view. Even the best cameras left on default will result in motion blur and ghosting at night. It is the same process for the dialing in the camera regardless of the VMS (NVR) system used.

If you want true plug-n-play simplicity and do not care about nighttime motion quality, then go with one of the consumer brands - Ring, Arlo, Reolink, Nest, Blink, etc. They are true plug-n-play because those cameras all run on default/auto settings with very little, to no ability to change camera parameters. But they do usually meet the WAF criteria.

Simply download their app and scan the camera QR code and you are up and running, with a better app experience also.

But their plug-n-play simplicity comes at a cost of nighttime performance and ability to customize stuff, but obviously many do not seem to care about that as those systems are popular and those consumer grade systems are a perfect fit for those that want simplicity and not having to learn how to use an NVR.


While the CX410 is on the proper MP/sensor ratio (4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor) with a large f1.0 aperture, it would be a steal if it worked like other full color cameras.

Sadly, it appears to suffer from the same issues of reolink, which is poor night quality and ghosting, etc. And look how washed out the camera on the right is when the lights kick on.

Is missing a leg normal?

Are these captures that could IDENTIFY a person? Looks like the person is close enough that a Dahua could provide IDENTIFY quality.

But it benefits from the light turning on with motion. Wonder if the camera gets momentarily blinded...yep....


Here is the unofficial master thread where people have put up their best attempts at night captures of objects in motion with a Reolink. As you will see, this will only tell the police what time something happened.

Thanks for such a detailed reply, good info.
I was just checking in with the wife earlier about what is most important for her. She gave a nice example. She said the other day she was with the baby and someone was at the door. She got a motion alert and was quickly able to see if it was safe or not before opening the door. Of course I want good quality night and day but this kind of functionality for my wife is important. Also to say, I am very tech savy but I don't want this to become a project that sucks my time. I want this to be a reliable workhorse.

 

[wittaj]

Thanks for such a detailed reply, good info.
I was just checking in with the wife earlier about what is most important for her. She gave a nice example. She said the other day she was with the baby and someone was at the door. She got a motion alert and was quickly able to see if it was safe or not before opening the door. Of course I want good quality night and day but this kind of functionality for my wife is important. Also to say, I am very tech savy but I don't want this to become a project that sucks my time. I want this to be a reliable workhorse.

Many members here will run a few consumer cams to satisfy the WAF criteria - Ring Doorbell and a few Ring cams as an example, and then have a complimentary system of better cameras to catch and ID the perp that the consumer camera won't capture.

Best of both worlds - wife is happy with an easy to use app that she can quickly see if she knows whoever is at the door or running around the property, and then you have the better system for when it is someone you don't know.

 

[handyandy]

That makes sense, I like that idea.
What would be a kind of gold standard (or there abouts) in terms of cameras and nvr that I should maybe have on my radar? Don't want to put you on the spot but appreciate your input.

 

[wittaj]

Many/most here feel like Dahua makes the best cameras from a cost and performance standpoint. Sure there are cameras that cost more, but most here don't feel like the incremental increase (5 times as expensive) brings 5 times the improvement in quality.

For years it used to be a tight race between Dahua and Hikvision, but in recent years it appears that Dahua has taken the advantage with more camera offerings that are on ideal MP/sensor ratios, plus many feel like the Hikvision GUI is more cumbersome to navigate.

A trusted member here @EMPIRETECANDY sells Dahua OEM gear (same stuff just cheaper because you are not paying for the logo). Members from all over the world buy from him either on Amazon, his website, or direct. He also has a sale coming up and give-aways.

As far as what to pair the cameras up with, that is up to you. It is best to match camera brand with NVR brand. Another option if you plan to have other cameras (but not the cloud based consumer cameras as those are proprietary) would be to go with a PC and Blue Iris.

See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection