New Store - Camera Recommendations

Sonnie

Sonnie

IPCT+ Member
Oct 31, 2022
355
171
Lower Alabama
I've pretty much narrowed it down to where I'd like to install the cameras. 8 cameras inside and 6 outside. I may add one to view the roof. Major 4-lane highway is out in front of the showroom floor, about 40ft away from the front door. Looking at the front door of the showroom floor, there is a hillside on the left, parking lot on the right and rear.

Curious which EmpireTech cameras would be best for these locations. The red arrows are proposed locations.

1744061595078.png
 
For the externals, I would go with B54IR-Z4E. No reason to not give yourself the added focal length.

How high are the show room ceilings?
I would add one in the show room, that is zoomed in on the door. Lower height would be better, to get under hats to see faces. This could possibly be a B54IR-ZE or T54IR-ZE, but may be beneficial to use a B54IR-Z4E.
The other two could be T54IR-AS in 3.6mm since they are 90* FOV.

Check out counter could be T54IR-AS in 3.6mm or 6mm, but may be better to go with T54IR-ZE so you can dial in on faces or counter, depending on what you ultimately want to see.

Everything in the back room could also likely be T54IR-AS in 3.6mm, with their 90* FOV, unless you wanted to also add a T54IR-ZE focused on the doorway from the show room.
 
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Not knowing the type of retail, you might also consider one directly over the check out counter, looking down; possibly a 3.6mm.
 
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So the following:

Exterior: EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 8mm–32mm Vari-Focal WDR IR AI Network Bullet Camera

Front door zoomed low: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Vari-Focal Turret Security Camera (would be easier to conceal than bullet.

Showroom, checkout counter, and backroom: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Fixed-Focal Turret Network Camera (3.6mm) (might do one at 6mm at checkout).

It's a gun shop. Facial recognition is probably not a big deal for break-ins, as we've not seen very many that did not wear masks. BUT... other details can matter. The ATF often asks for certain videos when someone comes in and tries to buy a gun that is on their list or that they know can't buy, just trying out a different gun shop. If they've been denied and keep trying, the ATF doesn't waste time paying them a visit.
 
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Where are the display cases? I would consider more coverage from behind the counter knowing the nature of the store. This is footage from a local store that had an attempted theft.


The thought with the door coverage is everyone has to come in through the door. So, even if you don't get a good capture elsewhere, you can at least ID them there and then use the other views for context and details.
The ZE might work for the front door, depending on how close you can get it. My thought was the Z4E in the lower, right corner, depending on other obstacles, could be an out of the way location and the 8-32mm would be more than enough to get you to the door.

Here are some ZE images at full 12mm zoom.

40ft
12mm 40ft.jpg

25ft
25ft.jpg

18ft
18ft.jpg
 
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Example 5442 fixed 3.6mm

7ft to the door, 14ft to the bumper
(Extra white light helps ALL cameras. Even cheap battery lights)
It could be run in color mode, but it takes a LOT of ambient light.
View attachment Home_ch3_20241022191445_20241022191527.mp4



Or you might look at the HDW3449H-AS-PV-PRO for certain spots with its own built in white light
Essentially the same as the 5442 but maybe just a tiny bit noisier image

  • White lights built into the camera and activated on human motion are nice
  • Can be set for whatever time schedule you need (nighttime only for example)
  • Can set to remain on after human detect 0-300 seconds
  • Can revert to B&W/IR or can be programmed to use the white light full time per schedule
  • Optional flashing Red/blue alarm lights and siren if you're into that
  • Built in dual mics, speaker for two way talk or recorded warning.
Again all of those features are optional. But its nice to be able to have colors for ID

View attachment 192.168.1.110_ch12_20250407230239_20250407230332.mp4
 
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We generally leave the lights on in the showroom 24/7. There are no windows as the entire building is wrapped in double metal. The front door is Lexan with a steel door behind it. We ran LED lights for 9 years in our other store and I think we replaced one ballast that burnt out. We will likely leave the lights on in the center area of the back as well.

How about the EmpireTech 1/1.8" CMOS IPC-D78IR-Z4-AI 8MP 8mm–32mm Vari-Focal IR Dome Network Camera (for the low door camera). That gets us the 32mm zoom.

It will be difficult to get a bullet camera that won't stick out so far that it will look odd that low, unless I can build it into the wall, which it would be easier to just get the dome camera, and the dome would keep it from getting scratched, etc.

It's about 20ft to the door from where we'd have to place the low camera. We'd have to make sure we don't block it with shelving. It would be better to place it where no one will likely be standing or looking at any products.

This shows were the cases will be.

1744123132298.png
 
Placing your cameras in the external corners and the interior corners of the showroom is not sufficient. That's because your doors are located halfway along the 40' long wall which means someone entering/leaving the shop is likely 20' from the nearest camera. That is too far to get any usable facial features on a camera with a "normal" (ie roughly 90 degree) field of view. Of course you could mount cameras with a much more narrow field of view in those located so you could get usable facial features of a subject 20' away, but that isn't what you are suggesting. I would suggest getting some of the 180 degree cameras (which are effectively two 90 degree cameras together) and putting them in the showroom and the exterior of the building. (See my attachment and the purple half circle shapes for a rough idea of placement. Actual placement would depend largely on where the best placement is to cover the doorways. IE you probably need to cheat them towards the door). This way you "only" have four cameras in the showroom, yet they would out perform having a camera in each corner (so still four cameras) by leaps and bounds.

Furthermore, the two cameras located behind the checkout counter should be mounted on the side walls as close to the counter as possible and you might want to add another camera with a narrower focal length that is designed to only cover the entrance (the orange camera in the drawing). I had initially placed this "entrance camera" it in the upper corner behind the checkout counter to be less conspicuous, but the way the door opens on the drawing, that probably isn't an ideal location. I would also add an internal camera facing the rear door too.

Showroom1.jpg
PS - this is also a "max protection" type of drawing. You could easily forgo most of the outside cameras (especially since there are no windows on the building so covering the doorways is the primary objective IMHO) and even half of the "show room" cameras if you wanted to.
 
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Businesses can usually get away with cameras that aren't on the ideal MP/Sensor setup because they tend to always have the needed light and you don't struggle with low-light night captures. That dome could work. Distance also lowers the angle, so the further from the door you can get it, the higher it can be.

I would also be inclined to add another camera in the two corners where you don't have one shown. Unless budget doesn't allow, there is no reason to not have the ability to see everything from those other corners. However, you could wire for them, check your coverage, and then add them later if you decide there are holes there.
 
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The Automation Guy said:
Placing your cameras in the external corners and the interior corners of the showroom is not sufficient. That's because your doors are located halfway along the 40' long wall which means someone entering/leaving the shop is likely 20' from the nearest camera. That is too far to get any usable facial features on a camera with a "normal" (ie roughly 90 degree) field of view. Of course you could mount cameras with a much more narrow field of view in those located so you could get usable facial features of a subject 20' away, but that isn't what you are suggesting. I would suggest getting some of the 180 degree cameras (which are effectively two 90 degree cameras together) and putting them in the showroom and the exterior of the building. (See my attachment and the purple half circle shapes for a rough idea of placement. Actual placement would depend largely on where the best placement is to cover the doorways. IE you probably need to cheat them towards the door). This way you "only" have four cameras in the showroom, yet they would out perform having a camera in each corner (so still four cameras) by leaps and bounds.

Furthermore, the two cameras located behind the checkout counter should be mounted on the side walls as close to the counter as possible and you might want to add another camera with a narrower focal length that is designed to only cover the entrance (the orange camera in the drawing). I had initially placed this "entrance camera" it in the upper corner behind the checkout counter to be less conspicuous, but the way the door opens on the drawing, that probably isn't an ideal location. I would also add an internal camera facing the rear door too.

View attachment 218715
Click to expand...


Along thse lines I would want Facial ID at the front door outside to be solid as we do on ANY home
 
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I like the idea of moving the cameras up behind the counter.

I'm not crazy about the dual-lens cameras. They are not truly 180 degrees and have the distortion issue in the center (the building you see in the pic below is considerably wider than it looks).

Here is the EmpireTech IPC-Color4K-T180 4K Full-Color 1/1.8" CMOS Dual-Lens Splicing Network Camera ... mounting it right up against the house. The bullet style I have on the front is worse because it sticks out too far from the house, so it does not capture the full edges of the house. It would need this non-bullet style to mount it on the building wall, which would be fine and doable, as I'll run the cable before finishing the inside walls. However, as below, coverage to the sides is limited. I have this one angled slightly to the left to catch our back door, but it does not cover the door to the right that is less than 20ft away.

1744125185224.png
 
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It would probably be good to add more closer to the front door. Then go ahead and add a few more inside, and probably more in the back inside as well.

For the outside, from about 10 pm to 6 am, I'll likely set up AI for persons coming close to the building during those hours, where it notifies me via text. Anyone getting that close to the building during those hours is likely up to no good.

Hopefully, I won't get too many false alarms. It's always a bit unnerving when the phone goes off in the middle of the night, as we had several break-ins with our previous shop, until we finally figured out how to fortify it. Even then, while they may not get in before the police get there, the damage costs money to repair.

1744127075590.png
 
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And back door.

That’s why I put 5442 3.6mm cams within about 6ft of every door.
 
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I would test one of the 5442s inside with the ambient light and see if you have as much light as you think you do just to be sure
 
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Sonnie said:
So the following:

Exterior: EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 8mm–32mm Vari-Focal WDR IR AI Network Bullet Camera

Front door zoomed low: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Vari-Focal Turret Security Camera (would be easier to conceal than bullet.

Showroom, checkout counter, and backroom: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Fixed-Focal Turret Network Camera (3.6mm) (might do one at 6mm at checkout).

It's a gun shop. Facial recognition is probably not a big deal for break-ins, as we've not seen very many that did not wear masks. BUT... other details can matter. The ATF often asks for certain videos when someone comes in and tries to buy a gun that is on their list or that they know can't buy, just trying out a different gun shop. If they've been denied and keep trying, the ATF doesn't waste time paying them a visit.
Click to expand...

I would add a face level camera at the doors, one on each side to catch those entering and those leaving.

I would also add cameras for lpr capture ..
 
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