Night/IR Wildlife Camera setup help for small farm

[moose_spotting]

I've been tasked to set up some cameras at a relatives farm. Here are their goals:

• Ability to see if bears/moose/racoon/etc are/were around and making noises in the evening and night
• Crepuscular and nighttime recording, but 24/7 "may be useful too"
• The primary goal is to check for animals around the property, secondary is people/vehicles
• A few cameras are for checking if a barn door was left open, the rest are exterior watching for wildlife
• Cameras around all buildings & nooks (~27 cameras across about 600ft of buildings)
• No/low internet/cloud connectivity. They have an unreliable DSL connection at 1Mbps up (when they want to send videos to people, or watch youtube, they literally drive into town)
• In terms of DORI: "I need to detect the bear, observing the bear is nice, but I don't think I would even be able to identify which bear is lurking next to the porch"

Based on this, I've narrowed it down to PoE-powered IP cameras with a local NVR. I'd love to avoid locking them into one proprietary system, and as a result I'm looking at something like Blue Iris, Frigate, etc. I'm not looking for information on that, but rather cameras, as I'm not too familial with cameras. I do have some questions:

1. Is this size of system still DIY-able, or should I look for a company to contract? If the latter, what would I be looking for, and a ballpark figure of how much would contracting such a system could be? (Rural Northeast USA)
2. Where are good places to buy cameras from? I can't find a lot of cameras I've seen recommended at retailers I'm familiar with, like Home Depot or Amazon.
3. Because they have to cover a lot of 270deg corners, I was planning on using a 90deg camera plus a 180deg (dual sensor) camera. Is that reasonable?
4. Because there are basically no lights in this area, I was thinking I would have to go with IR and not color night vision. Is that an accurate assumption, or is tech really good enough to be seen with just starlight?
5. What cameras are a good value for outdoor 180deg/dual lens, outdoor 90deg, and indoor 90deg in this situation? I've seen "The Hook Up" recommend "dahua t5442tm" for night IR 90deg which I can't seem to find for sale anymore, and the reolink duo 3 seems ok for the 180 option, I think? Thoughts?

I'm sorry if I've put this in the wrong spot or I've missed something, I tried to read other recommendations here but few seem to cover the niche I'm looking for. Thanks in advance!

 

[wittaj]

Welcome!

Thermal cameras would be an excellent choice for this:

Review - EmpireTech IPC-TPC124X-AI 1/2.7'' CMOS 4MP Thermal Network Mini Hybrid Eyeball Camera

As @EMPIRETECANDY pointed out in this thread, I have been playing with and testing the thermal camera IPC-TPC124X-AI. In particular, we wanted to see if they performed better than the previous thermal cameras that had proven unreliable if being used in mission critical situations and could...

ipcamtalk.com

Mini-Review - EmpireTech IPC-TPC124XB-AI-S2 Thermal Network Mini Hybrid Bullet Camera

As @EMPIRETECANDY pointed out in this thread, I have been playing with the EmpireTech IPC-TPC124XB-AI-S2 Thermal Network Mini Hybrid Bullet Camera with the larger 7/8mm focal length. I previously reviewed in this thread the EmpireTech IPC-TPC124X-AI 1/2.7'' CMOS 4MP Thermal Network Mini Hybrid...

ipcamtalk.com

Yes, you will want to stay away from any camera labeled as full color - the cameras do not defy physics and need light. So if you don't have enough ambient light or are not willing to use the built-in white LED, then a camera with infrared capability is your best choice. The full color cameras do not see infrared.

You will want to stay away from the stuff you find at big box stores.

Most here buy from @EMPIRETECANDY, a trusted vendor here with an Amazon storefront.

The 5442 camera that the Hookup Recommends is sold by Andy, but it has recently been renamed to 54IR.

Stay away from Reolinks as they will miss the motion you are looking for.

See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

 

[steve1225]

Ability to see if bears/moose/racoon/etc are/were around and making noises in the evening and night

• Crepuscular and nighttime recording, but 24/7 "may be useful too"
• In terms of DORI: "I need to detect the bear, observing the bear is nice, but I don't think I would even be able to identify which bear is lurking next to the porch"

Big question:
At what max distance from camera You want to detect an animal?

If we talk about a few hundred meters from cam - then You should look heavily into thermal cameras..

They have two lens - one see thermal image (low resolution), one see normal infrared/color video (high resolution).
Thermal lens can detect moving people / big animals even from 1 km (depending of models).
they see objects hidden in trees / bushes...

Based on this, I've narrowed it down to PoE-powered IP cameras with a local NVR. I'd love to avoid locking them into one proprietary system, and as a result I'm looking at something like Blue Iris, Frigate, etc. I'm not looking for information on that, but rather cameras, as I'm not too familial with cameras.

Good assumption... Choose POE powered IP cam and NVR from good company.

1. Is this size of system still DIY-able, or should I look for a company to contract? If the latter, what would I be looking for, and a ballpark figure of how much would contracting such a system could be? (Rural Northeast USA)
2. Where are good places to buy cameras from? I can't find a lot of cameras I've seen recommended at retailers I'm familiar with, like Home Depot or Amazon.

Doing DIY can give you 2-3x less cost.. Especially when You import cams from source with good prices (a lot bellow normal MSRP, which contractor will give You). HomeDepot is not a source of good cctv cams.

1. Because they have to cover a lot of 270deg corners, I was planning on using a 90deg camera plus a 180deg (dual sensor) camera. Is that reasonable?
2. Because there are basically no lights in this area, I was thinking I would have to go with IR and not color night vision. Is that an accurate assumption, or is tech really good enough to be seen with just starlight?
3. What cameras are a good value for outdoor 180deg/dual lens, outdoor 90deg, and indoor 90deg in this situation? I've seen "The Hook Up" recommend "dahua t5442tm" for night IR 90deg which I can't seem to find for sale anymore, and the reolink duo 3 seems ok for the 180 option, I think? Thoughts?

1. don't look at full color / white LED cameras - they are not for You - they require white light..

You will use IR (infrared) cams or thermal + IR cams, IR will give You a black / white image in the night (at places where is no light). If in some places You have a good street light - then they will work in color (if camera with good big sensor).

2. almost all 180deg cameras are full color cameras - they are not for You.
3. don't look at cheap consumer cams like reolink - they are toys..
4. one more time - at which max distance from cam You want to record animals?

if we talk about 10-20 meters, then You can use 90 degree cams, but if we talk about 50-100 or more - then the cams should be with zoom and narrow field (45 degree? 20 degree? even less) - depending of distance. If you use 90 degree cam, in most cases you will not see animal from a few hundred meters.

You should read about choosing Focal length for cctv cams depending of distance.

There can be situations where using 2 cams at the same location - one 90-110 degree wide for recording animals near camera, one very narrow directed at some distance place - will be good solution for You.

Starting point to what to choose:

EmpireTech 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Vari-focal Bullet Network Camera IPC-B54IR-Z4E-S3

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor | Built-in IR LED | The max. illumination distance is 120 m | Deep learning algorithm | Supports max. 512 GB Micro SD card | Built-in MIC | IP67 and IK10 protection | SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

cam with narrow field of view (H: 43°–15°) - think zoom 3x-9x...

EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR 2.7mm–12mm Vari-focal Bu

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor | Built-in IR LED | The max. illumination distance is 60 m | Deep learning algorithm | Built-in MIC | IP67 and IK10 protection | SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

cam for wide field of view (H: 115°–47°) - so zoom 1-3x

They are most popular cams here (Dahua 5442) - 4mpx, very good performance at night.. the only difference are lens..
Look at specifications of them - at the position DORI Distance.. There You will get information at which distances You can Detect, Observe, Recognize and Identify humans (this will work for bear size animals).

EmpireTech IPC-B52IR-Z12E-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 2MP 5mm–60mm Ultra Low Light

2-MP 1/2.8" CMOS image sensor | Built-in IR LED | The max. illumination distance is 150 m | Deep learning algorithm | Built-in MIC | IP67 and IK10 protection | SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

2 mpx cam with even narrow field of view (H: 59°–5°) - so zoom 2-24x

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Var

The EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 offers advanced features such as a 4MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, 40 m max. illumination distance with integrated IR LED, deep learning algorithms for face and object recognition, 512GB Micro SD card slot, built-in microphone, IP67 rating, and SMD 3.0 support.

empiretech01.com

5442 in turret variant...

EmpireTech IPC-TPC124XB-AI-S2 Thermal Network Mini Hybrid Bullet Camer

Vanadium oxide uncooled focal plane detector. | 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS. | AI functions: heat detection, tripwire, human/vehicle classification, smoking detection, and call detection. | Remote auxiliary management. | Dual image fusion (visible and thermal channels). | Wide input voltage...

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-TPC124X-AI-S2 1/2.7'' CMOS 4MP Thermal Network Mini Hyb

Vanadium oxide uncooled focal plane detector. | 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS. | AI functions: heat detection, tripwire, human/vehicle classification, smoking detection, and call detection. | Remote auxiliary management. | Dual image fusion (visible and thermal channels). | Wide input...

empiretech01.com

thermal cams, there are variant with different thermal lens depending of distance... they are FIXED LENS! - at order you decide what lens / zoom to order - can't change after...

EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5.4mm–135mm Va

1/1.8" 4Megapixel CMOS | Powerful 25x optical zoom | Starlight+ Technology | Max. 25/30fps@4MP | IR distance up to 150 m | Deep-learning-based perimeter protection | Auto-tracking and IVS | PoE+ | IP67, IK10

empiretech01.com

one more possibility - PTZ cams - which can move up/down, rotate 360 degree and have OPTIC!!!! zoom up to 25x (2x-50x comparing to zoom in 5442) - which can follow target automatically.
that cam can normally record wide (up to 45 degree) image and when You select (or cam will detect human) then can zoom-in into object at a few hundreds meters distance (check spec for DORI)...

 

[steve1225]

PS. All 5xx2-S3 (54IR) cams received in last update AI detection for animals..
Big question how this detection works for bears..
You should buy one cam for test (best with some more zoom) and check it

 

[VorlonFrog]

Can't get better quality for lower price than @EMPIRETECANDY SERIOUSLY high quality cameras from Dahua, at extremely reasonable prices. Do NOT consider any pre-packaged kits from any bigbox retailer. Overpriced and typically low quality.

 

[moose_spotting]

Ooh, I hadn't even considered thermal!

At what max distance from camera You want to detect an animal?

From 0-50ft? The key things I'm gathering are this is for situations like "oh neat a moose is lounging outside, lets exit from the back door to not disturb it". In the ~2 weeks my relatives have had the farm, they noticed a large mammal-sized dent in the flower bed directly next to the porch after a rainstorm. It's for that reason that about a quarter of the cameras are actually going to be pointing at buildings instead of away from buildings

Stay away from Reolinks as they will miss the motion you are looking for.

Animal (or any) event detection isn't something my relatives are particularly concerned about. It's definitley a "we are about to exit the building/turn on lights" so better check the cameras.

don't look at cheap consumer cams like reolink - they are toys..

I'm seeing dahua sometimes being cheaper than reolink, what makes reolink toys vs dahua or empiretech? I know one (allegedly) professional installer rated reolink as better than dahua.

2. almost all 180deg cameras are full color cameras - they are not for You.

Are there no 180deg cameras aside from that reolink that support IR? I had planned to use PoE+ with 2 10W cameras and a 3W passive switch with a single 70-100ft run, but 3 cameras blows past the PoE+ budget, requiring more long cables or more expensive PoE++ injectors

5442 [...] recently been renamed to 54IR.

Ah! that's the sort of useful knowledge I came here for

You should buy one cam for test (best with some more zoom) and check it

Planning on it!

PTZ cams

I've steered away from them because of a worry about nighttime recording not capturing what animals are doing because they are pointed away from the action


Thanks for all the help so far

 

[tigerwillow1]

I live on a few acres with the primary goal of keeping track of animals. The camera makers have put anybody who wants to watch animals in a catch-22 situation. The higher end models that have the best low light sensitivity are so smart that their IVS can trigger only on people and vehicles. Dumb motion detection will trigger on animals but gives so many false alerts from shadows and moving tree limbs that it's often useless. Thus you have to choose between low light sensitivity and detecting animals with a lower end camera, or not detecting animals in a camera with better low light sensitivity. The difference can be significant, at the fringes the better low light camera will let you clearly identify an animal, while the less better camera will either not see it at all, or give an unrecognizable blur.

One alternative is to use Blue Iris's more robust motion detection, which has a lot of options for tracking movement. I've not had the time or patience to get it working much better than the camera's motion detection. At my level of knowing how to configure it, it still gets fooled by tree limbs and tall grass on windy days. Another option is to use CPAI with Blue Iris. It did not work out for me for a few reasons. What I'm using is older 5442 series cameras with old firmware that will detect any line crossing movement as opposed to only people and vehicles. Or still days it works great. On windy days it piles up a lot of false triggers.

There's currently some brand new firmware for the S3 series cameras that includes animal detection with IVS. I bought an S3 camera to try it out, but don't have enough data yet to draw a conclusion after running it for only 2 days. A few more weeks and I hope to form my own yea or nay conclusion. There's a possibility that the thermal cameras could be your best bet. The have the best low-light/no-light capability, but their second standard camera doesn't come close to the best low-light cameras, and they cost a lot more. As with so many things, a lot of tradeoffs to juggle.

 

[wittaj]

Animal (or any) event detection isn't something my relatives are particularly concerned about. It's definitley a "we are about to exit the building/turn on lights" so better check the cameras.


I'm seeing dahua sometimes being cheaper than reolink, what makes reolink toys vs dahua or empiretech? I know one (allegedly) professional installer rated reolink as better than dahua.

You say event detection isn't something they are concerned about....but they are because if the camera doesn't see the moose, the camera is useless as you will see below....

Reolink's algorithm is designed to produce a nice bright static image at night and that comes at a cost of blur and ghost and missing body parts or the entire object at night.

Many people come here after being burned by a professional installer that was basically a trunk slammer that simply ran the cables and screwed the cameras into the walls and then didn't do any image adjustments and left everything on default.


Reolink does a very good job of still images. But at night perps are a complete motion blur with missing body parts LOL....

What you mean a missing hand isn't normal LOL :lmao (plus look at the blur on the face and he is barely moving and this should be ideal indoor IR bounce and it struggles):

How about missing everything but the blur of a head and upper torso

The invisible man, where can he be. Thank goodness he is carrying around a reflective plate to see where he is LOL (hint - the person is literally in the middle of the image at the end of the fence where that rectangular reflective plate is that he is carrying around)

I've seen better images on an episode of ghost hunters

And of course, this is an example from Reolink's marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture.... Could this provide anything useful for the police other than the date and time something happened? Would this protect your home? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two visible columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you


Here is the unofficial Reolink thread. It is documented in that thread as well the issues that BI has with Reolink cameras.

You can see all the attempts people have provided to demonstrate the quality of Reolink, and they are all a blurry mess at night or missing body parts or other messes.

We have challenged folks to provide a clean capture of someone moving at night with a Reolink and as you can see with over 20 pages, nobody has yet to provide a usable image with motion at night.



Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Themal camera is bit good for very long range watching that the normal camera can't reach, esp at dark farm at any weather. Use this kind of camera can use less visual cameras.

For cameras outdoor or indoor use normal IR cameras
Indoor for low budget use the IPC-T24IR-AS if good budget use the IPC-T54IR-AS S3.
Outdoor for nearby watching IPC-T54IR-AS S3, IPC-T54IR-ZE S3.
Long range for watching the door use IPC-B54IR-Z4E S3.
270 degree no good choice, i think add more cams to cover the blind area, can mix up some cheap models.

NVR use this one 32ch 4HDD model. The latest new fw also support animal detection, Only on 5 series NVRs and Cameras.

Amazon.com : EmpireTech NVR 5-EI Series 32 Channels 1.5U 16PoE 4HDD Smart H.265+ AI Wiz Network Video Recorder,Face Recognition and SMD Plus,Max. 384 Mbps Incoming/Recording/Outgoing Bandwidth,NVR32CH-16P-4AI : Electronics

 

[garycrist]

IR cams are for people! Animals see IR at night. Deer see in UV or far blue in addition to IR.
Did you ever ponder how they get around at night in the dark and most of their pelts are
drab brown/grey?

 

[tigerwillow1]

"It’s not possible for warm-blooded animals such as mammals and birds to see infrared light because their own bodies release heat. However, several cold-blooded animals evolved to see infrared light." Animals That Can See Infrared Light

"... some animals, like snakes, frogs, bees and a few species of fish, can detect infrared waves in their environment. "
however: "It’s not all bad news for animals like reindeer: Their UV perception also helps them find their favorite food (lichen) and detect the urine of predators. It also helps keep them away from dangerous power lines. Animals See a World That’s Completely Invisible to Our Eyes

Assuming these statements are true, even though a cat can't see the actual IR, the visible glow of the IR lights would (I would guess) be a lot brighter to a cat than to us.

 

[moose_spotting]

What you mean a missing hand isn't normal LOL :lmao (plus look at the blur on the face and he is barely moving and this should be ideal indoor IR bounce and it struggles):

Hah, yeah I can see how that would be not great for crime. I did run this by the relatives and their first reaction was "most of the critters we're concerned about don't move fast, so that sounds like a ok trade off". I think the fact that they see a blurry large blob is enough for them. Not having lived on a farm, I can't say myself.

Outdoor for nearby watching IPC-T54IR-AS S3, IPC-T54IR-ZE S3.

What's the "E" for? A = Audio, S = SD card, and Z = zoom, so ZE has zoom but no audio, correct?

270 degree no good choice, i think add more cams to cover the blind area, can mix up some cheap models.

Yeah, that's why I'm finding. Any cheaper models to suggest?