Night vision / IR issue on left side

[McCarthy]

Hey folks,

I bought a Hikvision DS-2CD2123G0-I last week at B&H, installed it, and witnessed an issue with the IR range. The left side is very dark. I can see 3 red LEDs, all being on when standing straight in-front of the cam (left, middle, right). I uploaded a photo.

Sent email to Hikvision 2 days ago, no reply so far. Called them yesterday, was cut short, ask to turn on and off the night mode few times (didn't help) and then told to buy a model with better IR capabilities.

Called B&H (authorized dealer) today, they just want to exchange it without having a clear answer if this IR limitation is typical for this particular model.

I was planning to buy more of these cams, but not if this is the normal IR range of this model.

So, is there an issue with this cam or are they all that limited on the sides? Any ideas that I could try myself before sending it back?

Thanks!

 

[gpower07]

look normal. try move it from the wall a little.

 

[McCarthy]

look normal. try move it from the wall a little.

I can't, I need the windows in the field of view. Why is the left side so very dark. If that's normal for this cam, this is a clear design fail and a no-go for me.

 

[gpower07]

you can change the light balance to the right,,,,my english not very good...i know how to set it...but hard to explain...others will chill in later.

 

[McCarthy]

you can change the light balance to the right,,,,my english not very good...i know how to set it...but hard to explain...others will chill in later.

I just looked through all config options and didn't find anything that would allow me to change anything to the left or right.

 

[beepsilver]

I just looked through all config options and didn't find anything that would allow me to change anything to the left or right.

He might be referring to custom BLC (backlighting) where you can set up, down, left, right or center. Not sure that would help in this case though.

Won't hurt to try another camera if you suspect there's a physical problem with the one you have. I don't think you'll be satisfied though. You really shouldn't install domes outdoors; it's better to have a turret or bullet. Domes suffer from environmental effects over time, especially in Florida...not to mention having to wipe the domes down every so often. Even still, one camera will likely not provide the lighting you want in that space....you'll need supplemental lighting. You're best bet is Darkfighter or Starlight camera that does very well in the dark...many forum members buy cameras either on this website, or from a reliable vendor (Andy) who frequents this site EMPIRETECANDY

Back to your camera...

That cam is supposed to have up to 30m IR range right? If you can't make any IR adjustments in the software to boost performance, then you might consider rotating the camera so the IR lights are above the lens...your main projection is nearly straight down. As for the left side (and the right side for that matter), there appears to be a distinct straight line object that's blocking the IR and casting a shadow...it's worse on the left. If it's not an object near the camera, it could be inside the dome or even under the cover that houses the IR lights--sometimes the styrofoam rings can be slightly out of position and block lighting. Can you take the camera down and test IR lighting in an unencumbered setting?

 

[gpower07]

here is the pics...and i don't think the IR can reach 30 meters.

 

[aristobrat]

I can't, I need the windows in the field of view. Why is the left side so very dark. If that's normal for this cam, this is a clear design fail and a no-go for me.

IMO, the right side of your image is pretty bright because the IR is reflecting directly off the side of the house (and the soffit). Cameras will often respond to a situation like that by dialing things back (so the bright section isn't overexposed), but that can cause other areas of the image to look darker.

If you want to test that theory, temporarily aim the camera so it's looking straight away from the wall and see what the left side of that image looks like then.

 

[J Sigmo]

I don't think I'm seeing anything abnormal in that image. Unfortunately, these built-in IR illuminators usually light up a smallish spot in the center of the image.

What I see in your example photo is the usual central illuminated area with dark edges. The right side looks brighter than the left because you have some objects nearer to the camera that are being "lit up" more brightly simply because they're closer to the light source. On the left side of the image, you're seeing the typical dark edges that don't receive as much IR illumination as the center gets.

And as @aristobrat has mentioned, having the light, close-in objects on the right, in the image, causes the auto-exposure system in the camera to dim down the entire image because it's an averaging exposure metering system.

To get really good, even IR illumination, you usually need to install separate IR illuminators. I've never been impressed with the coverage of built-in IR lighting with any of my cameras, and this includes several brands and models. They all seem to produce a center "hot spot" because their IR LEDs' light emission patterns don't match the wide field of view provided by the camera's lens/sensor combination. Not to be too cynical, but I do think the manufacturers all take advantage of IR LEDs that favor the middle of the image so that they can claim longer distances in their specifications for the IR illumination.

It would cost more to manufacture, but it would be nice if the camera makers would put more effort into achieving more uniform IR illumination of the particular cameras' fields of view when designing them. But I figure that even when they offer a variety of focal length options for the lens of a particular model, they slap in the exact same IR LED system regardless. If you buy the camera with the longest possible focal length lens, the IR LEDs in the camera probably match that field of view the best. But when you buy the shorter focal length lens options, you end up with that "dark around the edges" effect.

 

[McCarthy]

WOW! I'm finally getting some really great advise after the mess from HIKVISION and B&H. Thank you so much guys!

All your posts make perfectly sense. I'll be testing the backlight settings, also turn the cam away from the wall and look inside if anything is blocking the left-side IR LED. I'll report back!

There is only one way to mount cams anywhere around my house, not counting the front side. They have to be mounted under the roof line on some rather flimsy mesh sheet that allows for ventilation of the attic. Every other mounting would mean holes in the walls and cables visible on the inside of the house, hence a no-go. This is the reason why I have to go with small and light-weigh dome cameras. The bullets cams cause a leverage at the mount and would bend the mesh sheet. They would also be much easier to rip off or manipulate. Turret cams would show the aim of the cams and my neighbors might think that I'm spying on them, which also brings me back to dome cams.

 

[beepsilver]

Aristobat etal are probably right, the IR reflection is what's likely causing the issues...so testing the IR with no walls should probably be your first move after trying the backlight modification. If you're stuck with the location, you may consider turning off IR altogether and use a different light source.

 

[J Sigmo]

There's another advantage to using external IR illuminators, and switching the built-in IR LEDs completely off.

With any camera, if the light source is really close to the lens, tiny objects that would ordinarily be invisible (dust, spider webs, flying bugs, snow, rain, etc.) that are near the lens (and thus the IR LEDs, too) get lit up extremely bright.

They're close to the light source at the same time as they're close to the lens. So they show up huge and bright in the images. They set off motion triggers, and are generally annoying.

This is the effect that seems to always befuddle the "ghost hunters", and they act all excited about "orbs" or other nonsense. Anyone who has shot flash pictures with a small point-and-shoot camera, whose flash is right next to the lens, has probably had dust show up in some of their shots.

And in addition, if you're using dome cameras, the internal IR LEDs can reflect off of the dome itself, or really accentuate any dust or scratches on the dome.

In all of these cases, keeping the internal LEDs switched off, and using external IR illuminators mounted well away from the camera will save you a lot of grief as well as potentially giving you more uniform illumination and avoiding lighting up nearby walls, etc. You just have more control.

You always need to think about setting up security cameras the same way that a photographer would approach setting up lighting for a photo shoot. Photographers often use multiple light sources and frequently place the lights well away from the camera. Further, they may use diffusers or umbrella reflectors to make the apparent size of a light source larger to give a more even and shadow-free effect.

All of these techniques should be considered when designing the camera and light source setup for your system. The principals are all exactly the same. And there are a lot of on-line tutorials about photo lighting. It's worth considering this.

Unless you are trying to capture those spooky "orbs".

 

[McCarthy]

Well, here the conclusion:

- The dark sides are on both sides once I turn the cam away from the wall.

- Turning WDR on helped most from all backlight settings, below a new photo.

- HIKVSION finally replied via email, but all they did was sending me back to their authorized dealer B&H, and they have no clue whatsoever.

- I don't want to install external IR lights. Just finish the wiring my new 10G home network and CAT 6a for everything, including the cams. Not going to start over for lights. Florida heat + humidity + attic = death trap!


The horrendous customer service from HIKVISION alone makes me want to send it back to B&H right away. The IR output really is crap.

I'll order an equivalent from Vivotek and compare both. Not counting the PZT all my other cams are from Vivotek, and they didn't give me any issues in 5 years.

Thank you all again. I'll report back once I compared them.

 

[gpower07]

Well, here the conclusion:

- The dark sides are on both sides once I turn the cam away from the wall.

- Turning WDR on helped most from all backlight settings, below a new photo.

- HIKVSION finally replied via email, but all they did was sending me back to their authorized dealer B&H, and they have no clue whatsoever.

- I don't want to install external IR lights. Just finish the wiring my new 10G home network and CAT 6a for everything, including the cams. Not going to start over for lights. Florida heat + humidity + attic = death trap!


The horrendous customer service from HIKVISION alone makes me want to send it back to B&H right away. The IR output really is crap.

I'll order an equivalent from Vivotek and compare both. Not counting the PZT all my other cams are from Vivotek, and they did give me any issues in 5 years.

Thank you all again. I'll report back once I compared them.

look good to me.

 

[aristobrat]

The horrendous customer service from HIKVISION alone makes me want to send it back to B&H right away.

If it helps make any sense of that, neither Hikvision or Dahua are consumer-level companies. If a consumer wants one of their products, both of their sales/support models are that the consumer should buy from an authorized dealer/installer who is responsible to do the physical install and then providing support. B&H shortcuts that model which is kind of cool for folks looking to get their hands on the equipment without having to pay extra for installation, but as you've noted it's not great when you need tech support.

The IR output really is crap.

I know you're stuck with using domes, but generally speaking that style of camera (and the IR "ring" that they use) isn't known for having strong IR. Ironically, what they are known for around here is sometimes having problems with IR leaking back into the image either because the foam ring around the lens that tries to keep IR out deteriorates over time, or because IR bounces off of an object in front of the camera and back towards the dome, both of which can "white out" the image. So I'm a little worried that if you do manage to find a dome with more IR, it's going to come with more tradeoffs.

Normally I'd say you'd want to stick with Dahua/Hikvision because they're the only manufactures that make cameras that use the great low-light 2MP 1/2.8" image sensor, but looking through Vivotek's 2MP dome models, it looks like a few of them use a sensor of that size. That's interesting, I haven't seen that before.

 

[Nanookofthenorth]

There is only one way to mount cams anywhere around my house, not counting the front side. They have to be mounted under the roof line on some rather flimsy mesh sheet that allows for ventilation of the attic. Every other mounting would mean holes in the walls and cables visible on the inside of the house, hence a no-go. This is the reason why I have to go with small and light-weigh dome cameras. The bullets cams cause a leverage at the mount and would bend the mesh sheet. They would also be much easier to rip off or manipulate. Turret cams would show the aim of the cams and my neighbors might think that I'm spying on them, which also brings me back to dome cams.

You have options for mounting. One of the members here has some helpful post on making mounting brackets for soft soffit materials like mesh and vinyl. Really easy to do. As for turrets and bullets, to exclude selecting because "getting ripped off" or "neighbors thinking" is an idea you might want to re-evaluate and justify.