Noob looking for some wifi ip cameras

N

niproblema

n3wb
Jun 12, 2019
4
2
Slovenia
Hello,

this is my first time using ip cameras and I have an issue knowing what I am looking at.
I am in need of some guidance picking cameras. I am dev working on some project of live video recognition. Company might pick hundreds, depending on this :)
I checked the store and realized all consumer cameras they had, were used with some app. Tested one for a day and it had firmware bound to chinese app and no documentation.

Looking for following traits:
  • Outdors, with range from -20C to +50C Fixed bullet design seems fine
  • Wifi - Livestream - Needs to be able to connect to protected wpa2 wifi. I tried gopro, but gopros make their own AP, which isn't suitable. Can I expect to fit at least 8 cameras on 1 access point all livestreaming at same time. How much bandwidth is one hd stream, few hundred kb/s? Also is there any differentiation in compression standards. I have limited decoding perfomance budget, so something like H.265 is not possible. Also internet access isn't intended, only wlan.
  • Video quality is high priority, but as long as It can stream somewhat HD image(480p-1080) without blocks with clear image it's fine. Color accuracy and microphone isn't needed.
  • Nightvision with at least 5+m range.
  • Simple controls - Probably http for settings, rtsp with udp stream? This a must, as I mentioned, some are locked to bullshit apps and I'd rather not be wasting time trying to bypass that. Some documentation on that would be nice
  • Low price, maximum of 100€. Under 50€ would be perfect. This is highly imporant.
  • Storage capabilities aren't needed, but not unwanted if it can do continuous loop recording with possibility to access it without disrupting live?
 
Last edited:
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niproblema said:
Hello,

this is my first time using ip cameras and I have an issue knowing what I am looking at.
I am in need of some guidance picking cameras. I am dev working on some project of live video recognition. Company might pick hundreds, depending on this :)
I checked the store and realized all consumer cameras they had, were used with some app. Tested one for a day and it had firmware bound to chinese app and no documentation.

Looking for following traits:
  • Outdors, with range from -20C to +50C Fixed bullet design seems fine
  • Wifi - Livestream - Needs to be able to connect to protected wpa2 wifi. I tried gopro, but gopros make their own AP, which isn't suitable. Can I expect to fit at least 8 cameras on 1 access point all livestreaming at same time. How much bandwidth is one hd stream, few hundred kb/s? Also is there any differentiation in compression standards. I have limited decoding perfomance budget, so something like H.265 is not possible. Also internet access isn't intended, only wlan.
  • Video quality is high priority, but as long as It can stream somewhat HD image(480p-1080) without blocks with clear image it's fine. Color accuracy and microphone isn't needed.
  • Nightvision with at least 5+m range.
  • Simple controls - Probably http for settings, rtsp with udp stream? This a must, as I mentioned, some are locked to bullshit apps and I'd rather not be wasting time trying to bypass that. Some documentation on that would be nice
  • Low price maximum 100€. Under 50€ would be perfect. This is higly imporant.
  • Storage capabilities aren't needed, but not unwanted if it can do continuous loop recording with possibility to access it without disrupting live?
Click to expand...
If you can run solid copper cat cable. Wifi is unreliable
 
Cameraguy said:
Dont know about anyone else but I'd get a real good extender, a Poe switch and run regular cameras off it. Others might have a better idea.
Click to expand...
That's an option we will try, but in some cases and for development we are going with wifi for sure.

I will most likely try out Reolink RLC-410W next. Seems good value, even though it's a bit expensive
 
niproblema said:
That's an option we will try, but in some cases and for development we are going with wifi for sure.

I will most likely try out Reolink RLC-410W next. Seems good value, even though it's a bit expensive
Click to expand...
Someone on here posted a really nice weatherproof junction box that held a switch and extender
 
Someone on another thread posted some Versa-Mount info/pics that looked really good. They mentioned you can find them on mcmaster.com - just do a search on versa-mount washdown polycarbonate enclosure.
 
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niproblema said:
That's an option we will try, but in some cases and for development we are going with wifi for sure.

I will most likely try out Reolink RLC-410W next. Seems good value, even though it's a bit expensive
Click to expand...
You’ll find the general consensus here is to avoid Reolink. Just saying...
 
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niproblema said:
Hello,

this is my first time using ip cameras and I have an issue knowing what I am looking at.
I am in need of some guidance picking cameras. I am dev working on some project of live video recognition. Company might pick hundreds, depending on this :)
I checked the store and realized all consumer cameras they had, were used with some app. Tested one for a day and it had firmware bound to chinese app and no documentation.

Looking for following traits:
  • Outdors, with range from -20C to +50C Fixed bullet design seems fine
  • Wifi - Livestream - Needs to be able to connect to protected wpa2 wifi. I tried gopro, but gopros make their own AP, which isn't suitable. Can I expect to fit at least 8 cameras on 1 access point all livestreaming at same time. How much bandwidth is one hd stream, few hundred kb/s? Also is there any differentiation in compression standards. I have limited decoding perfomance budget, so something like H.265 is not possible. Also internet access isn't intended, only wlan.
  • Video quality is high priority, but as long as It can stream somewhat HD image(480p-1080) without blocks with clear image it's fine. Color accuracy and microphone isn't needed.
  • Nightvision with at least 5+m range.
  • Simple controls - Probably http for settings, rtsp with udp stream? This a must, as I mentioned, some are locked to bullshit apps and I'd rather not be wasting time trying to bypass that. Some documentation on that would be nice
  • Low price, maximum of 100€. Under 50€ would be perfect. This is highly imporant.
  • Storage capabilities aren't needed, but not unwanted if it can do continuous loop recording with possibility to access it without disrupting live?
Click to expand...
niproblema said:
That's an option we will try, but in some cases and for development we are going with wifi for sure.

I will most likely try out Reolink RLC-410W next. Seems good value, even though it's a bit expensive
Click to expand...

Welcome @niproblema

Good replies by members, do take a close look at what they are stating.

You have conflicting traits / requirements:
  • Wifi - Livestream != continuous loop recording, 8 cameras on 1 access point all livestreaming at same time .. without disrupting live ( risky proposition )
  • Nightvision with at least 5+m range != Under 50€ would be perfect

You have a possible conflicting trait / requirement:
  • Video quality is high priority, but as long as It can stream somewhat HD image(480p-1080) without blocks with clear image it's fine != Reolink RLC-410W ( see reported iFrame issues w/Reolink )
  • Low price, maximum of 100€. Under 50€ would be perfect. This is highly imporant != all the requirements listed

Q: How much bandwidth is one hd stream, few hundred kb/s?
A: You have to decide more about your program and what you need. Do you need an iFrame for each frame? How many iFrames per second do you need? What resolution do you need? What range will you be attempting to determine the details? ( 5+meters ? ) What pixel density do you need? What quality of image do you need?

Once you determine the quality of image you need, you can better understand what sort of bandwidth you may need.


I recommend during the development process to get a good quality varifocal camera which meets various standards and allows you to customize the settings like iframes, H.264 vs H.265, to better get an idea of what you need. Once you've determined what you functionally need you can pick a more affordable model to test for deployment. If the more affordable model passes the test you can then deploy it.
 
niproblema said:
That's an option we will try, but in some cases and for development we are going with wifi for sure.
Click to expand...
That's what I did for a while.

niproblema said:
I will most likely try out Reolink RLC-410W next. Seems good value, even though it's a bit expensive
Click to expand...
I don't know the Reolink product line. I'd be disinclined to go with them, anyway. (See below.) But my experimental cameras were an Argus and a C1 Pro.

VorlonFrog said:
You’ll find the general consensus here is to avoid Reolink. Just saying...
Click to expand...
I don't know why that's the consensus, but I would agree. Quality- and functionality-wise the two I had worked well enough, but the C1 Pro did something very odd and quite disquieting: It was asking for a 2nd IP address using a 2nd MAC address, and none of the MAC addresses it used--yes, the second MAC address would change, belonged to Reolink. Some of them belonged to nobody. Others belonged to entirely unrelated entities.

mat200 said:
Welcome @niproblema

Good replies by members, do take a close look at what they are stating.

You have conflicting traits / requirements:
  • Wifi - Livestream != continuous loop recording, 8 cameras on 1 access point all livestreaming at same time .. without disrupting live ( risky proposition )
Click to expand...
Eh, depends. I've had up to five streaming clients running mpeg2 streams off our NAS at the same time. Streaming rates were from 6-15Mb/s. (SD content closer to 6. HD closer to 15.) All of them wireless. All of them on 5GHz. Never dropped a frame. Meanwhile the Reolink C1 Pro never missed a beat--also on 5GHz on the same AP. And those weren't the only things running off that AP on 5GHz. But it's not a typical consumer-grade AP and the distances weren't great. (Small, single-story ranch home.)

WiFi gets a bad rap because most WiFi systems are garbage.

That being said: I went to a good deal of effort to wire all my cameras. Had to get power to them, anyway.
 
Dramus said:
..

Eh, depends. I've had up to five streaming clients running mpeg2 streams off our NAS at the same time. Streaming rates were from 6-15Mb/s. (SD content closer to 6. HD closer to 15.) All of them wireless. All of them on 5GHz. Never dropped a frame. Meanwhile the Reolink C1 Pro never missed a beat--also on 5GHz on the same AP. And those weren't the only things running off that AP on 5GHz. But it's not a typical consumer-grade AP and the distances weren't great. (Small, single-story ranch home.)

WiFi gets a bad rap because most WiFi systems are garbage.

That being said: I went to a good deal of effort to wire all my cameras. Had to get power to them, anyway.
Click to expand...

Of course: "It depends"

Can you have a reliable WiFi? Yes.. but it depends...

AND THAT'S THE ISSUE.

You can not call it "reliable technology" if it depends on all sorts of conditions.
 
mat200 said:
You can not call it "reliable technology" if it depends on all sorts of conditions.
Click to expand...
@mat200, with all due respect, and I mean that sincerely: That makes no sense. All technological solutions assume a proper implementation.

My argument is that a properly implemented WiFi system can be so nearly as reliable as a wired system as it makes no significant difference. Most people don't know that because, as I noted, most WiFi implementations are crap. Consumer-grade WiFi router stuck in one corner of the house. A WiFi "mesh" system--which is no more than a bunch of inexpensive WiFi repeaters and some firmware to make the system "intelligent."

When I was still working I had a WiFi system in the building that was so reliable hardly anybody with a laptop ever bothered to hook up to wired connections--despite the fact every seat had it available. Even the software engineers--and they were always working with IDEs that were connected to software repositories on one of the servers on the LAN, moving big chunks of data regularly. Doing software builds on their laptops against source code repos on the LAN.

Conversely: I all-of-a-sudden one day noticed some of my Ethernet connections were acting wonky. Long story short: What had happened was they'd been doing some work on the roof in my absence, and cut through some of my cables. My boss, bless his heart, had somebody get up there, terminate each end of the cuts, and hook 'em together with patch cables. (I'd wondered where all my patch cables had gone.) It worked, for some value of "worked," but the connections had high error rates and some NICs didn't like them at all. Doesn't mean Ethernet is an unreliable technology, does it?
 
I had a Reolink wireless bullet camera some years ago. Hey, wifi, good resolution, and great price, what's not to like, right? Well, their failure to allow iframe interval settings for one. Their MJPEG algorithm was flaky, as well. Fibbing to their customers and in this forum, as well. I wouldn't trust 'security' video to their cameras. If it doesn't work well with Blue Iris (and the video was often glitchy) then it's not worth buying. And Blue Iris handles a LOT of different brands and models of cameras.
 
Dramus said:
@mat200, with all due respect, and I mean that sincerely: That makes no sense. All technological solutions assume a proper implementation.

My argument is that a properly implemented WiFi system can be so nearly as reliable as a wired system as it makes no significant difference. Most people don't know that because, as I noted, most WiFi implementations are crap. Consumer-grade WiFi router stuck in one corner of the house. A WiFi "mesh" system--which is no more than a bunch of inexpensive WiFi repeaters and some firmware to make the system "intelligent."

When I was still working I had a WiFi system in the building that was so reliable hardly anybody with a laptop ever bothered to hook up to wired connections--despite the fact every seat had it available. Even the software engineers--and they were always working with IDEs that were connected to software repositories on one of the servers on the LAN, moving big chunks of data regularly. Doing software builds on their laptops against source code repos on the LAN.

Conversely: I all-of-a-sudden one day noticed some of my Ethernet connections were acting wonky. Long story short: What had happened was they'd been doing some work on the roof in my absence, and cut through some of my cables. My boss, bless his heart, had somebody get up there, terminate each end of the cuts, and hook 'em together with patch cables. (I'd wondered where all my patch cables had gone.) It worked, for some value of "worked," but the connections had high error rates and some NICs didn't like them at all. Doesn't mean Ethernet is an unreliable technology, does it?
Click to expand...

@Dramus with all due respect, Do you really think people are going to be checking all the boxes to ensure they have a "properly implemented WiFI?"

Seriously. Think about it.

People buy WiFi because they want an easy setup and forget. They do not want to do "hard work" to make it happen.

And, they also do not even consider the other elements to a good WiFi implementation, which btw I do not see even mention in your reply.

And that is the BUILDING.

Yes - one of the greatest things which can affect the effectiveness of a WiFi setup is the building.

"Chicken wire and stucco".. great to block WiFi.

Same with some of the radiant barriers / house wraps that are now on the market.

Also, neighbors and their electronics emitting signals which interrupt WiFi .. oh, and some kitchen appliances.. oh, and some potential attacks on WiFi..

Look, I will give it to you - that a quality WiFi LAN professional can setup a good WIFi system. However, that is not the people coming here and asking about WiFi cameras and how to set up IP routers.

Also your reply suggesting wired is not reliable because the cable can be cut is really rather unlikely. Especially if the cat5e/cat6 cable is protected in a conduit and / or in wall and not readily exposed to vandals.
 
Thanks for responses, got some useful information and bookmarked some links.

mat200 said:
Welcome @niproblema

Q: How much bandwidth is one hd stream, few hundred kb/s?
A: You have to decide more about your program and what you need. Do you need an iFrame for each frame? How many iFrames per second do you need? What resolution do you need? What range will you be attempting to determine the details? ( 5+meters ? ) What pixel density do you need? What quality of image do you need?
Click to expand...

Hmm good point.
Not sure about iframes, haven't used them as measurement before. I guess it relates to compression quality in video with a lot of motion. Which is what would be highly important for our use case, so good thing you brought it up.
Same with quality at range, which I also didn't consider, but would be fairly important(3-15m). Other than that, 720p, ~30 fps should do. 10Mbit/s should be plenty I think, even if it was 1080p/60. Modern ac wifi routers are rated at few thousand Mbit/s, so that shouldn't be a problem. But will have to test it, to optimize costs.


Dramus said:
That's what I did for a while.

I don't know why that's the consensus, but I would agree. Quality- and functionality-wise the two I had worked well enough, but the C1 Pro did something very odd and quite disquieting: It was asking for a 2nd IP address using a 2nd MAC address, and none of the MAC addresses it used--yes, the second MAC address would change, belonged to Reolink. Some of them belonged to nobody. Others belonged to entirely unrelated entities.


Eh, depends. I've had up to five streaming clients running mpeg2 streams off our NAS at the same time. Streaming rates were from 6-15Mb/s. (SD content closer to 6. HD closer to 15.) All of them wireless. All of them on 5GHz. Never dropped a frame. Meanwhile the Reolink C1 Pro never missed a beat--also on 5GHz on the same AP. And those weren't the only things running off that AP on 5GHz. But it's not a typical consumer-grade AP and the distances weren't great. (Small, single-story ranch home.)

WiFi gets a bad rap because most WiFi systems are garbage.

That being said: I went to a good deal of effort to wire all my cameras. Had to get power to them, anyway.
Click to expand...

If it was spoofed mac, how could you tell it was C1 doing the second connection :D

Is 15Mbit/s for all 5 or each. If latter it must have been some very high quality or low compression.
 
niproblema said:
If it was spoofed mac, how could you tell it was C1 doing the second connection :D
Click to expand...
All other WiFi devices were accounted-for and, most telling, it only happens when that camera is turned on. Pretty damning circumstantial evidence ;)

niproblema said:
Is 15Mbit/s for all 5 or each. If latter it must have been some very high quality or low compression.
Click to expand...
Two of the streams were HD, running 12-15Mb/s. Two were SD, running ±6Mb/s. I don't recall if the fifth was HD or SD. They weren't surveillance cams. Those were all from a networked OTA TV system. Takes broadcast TV and puts it on the LAN. Then you watch with streaming devices (Apple TV, Fire TV, Android TV, and Android and iOS mobile devices).

That was only ±60Mb/s total, not including any other traffic.
 
@niproblema and others following this thread

There are good reasons why many members who have experience with security camera members on ipcamtalk discourage: wifi, reolink, as well as foscam

If you're developing software you want to reduce other failure points and compatibility issues until your code base is stable enough. WiFi will just add another layer of complexity and thus reduce reliability. Once you have a stable code base, you can then add complexity and deal with those potentially new issues.
 
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