Noob with retail shops - which cams??

[houseofvape]

Out of curiosity just tried mine which is dialed in pretty well. No way you can read it at that distance. Not even at half of that. See clearly to tell that it's a license, yes. But cannot read the tiny text. Resolution just isn't good enough to see that fine of detail. I can almost make out the much larger text of "Drivers License" at the top but there's some mental interpolation involved to get even that. ; )

Okay, so what do I need to do in order to read an ID card from 6-10 feet away?

Get a camera with a higher zoom?
Get a 4K camera?
Something else?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Fifteen feet is just too far for that small a target. I figured you'd mount it directly above the area of interest unless you've got 20 foot ceilings.

At six feet you should be fine with the "Z", 10 feet might work as well, but that's getting a little dicey IMHO.

 

[houseofvape]

Fifteen feet is just too far for that small a target. I figured you'd mount it directly above the area of interest unless you've got 20 foot ceilings.

This is from 6-10 ft away, not 15 ft. It will be mounted directly above where the license will be.

 

[Mike A.]

I probably got to about 8' or so and still no go. That's looking at it on video. I'm not sure how snapshots work on these cams and whether a static image might work better or not if you could program that. You'd think that with a 4MP cam and enough zoom you could but I couldn't in just a quick test. Maybe under some optimal conditions but it would have to get much better. Someone handing someone else an ID in motion? NFW lol

 

[sebastiantombs]

Remember geometry gets involved. Six feet away and how mant feet above? Draw a hypotenuse and solve for the true distance.

 

[houseofvape]

Remember geometry gets involved. Six feet away and how mant feet above? Draw a hypotenuse and solve for the true distance.

I took a tape measure and measured the exact distance. It’s 75 inches.

I’ve been doing tests at longer distances of around ten feet, since I thought it would be doable, but I’m quickly finding that’s not the case.

 

[Mike A.]

That's much better. Curious to see what you can resolve at that distance. I'm more optimistic.

 

[Holbs]

Is this where a 8MP camera would come in handy? For the high pixel count when it comes to zooming?

 

[houseofvape]

Is this where a 8MP camera would come in handy? For the high pixel count when it comes to zooming?

I’m hoping so, because I’m not having much luck here (even at 75”), so I’m going to try a 8MP cam next.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah I tested with mine and a drivers license size object is almost impossible to clearly read at any distance.

I even tested with the new 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor and it is a no go. Keep in mind 4k (8MP) varifocals are not available yet, unless you spend the big bucks, so I think you are wasting your money trying an 8MP cam next.

These cameras are good, but the sensors are still too small and cameras too far away (even with optical zoom) to read print that small.

I think even under ideal conditions, lighting, and the driver's license stationary and not moving that it will be a tough go.

I would think that the retail industry would have some sort of setup with a camera that is literally inches from the driver's license if that is something that is needed.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Retail shop need some 4K cams, can use IPC-T2831TM-AS , If budget is low, can use IPC-T2431T-AS, both are good cams for indoor.
Outdoor use some better cams. @houseofvape

Amazon.com

 

[houseofvape]

Yeah I tested with mine and a drivers license size object is almost impossible to clearly read at any distance.

I even tested with the new 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor and it is a no go. Keep in mind 4k (8MP) varifocals are not available yet, unless you spend the big bucks, so I think you are wasting your money trying an 8MP cam next.

These cameras are good, but the sensors are still too small and cameras too far away (even with optical zoom) to read print that small.

I think even under ideal conditions, lighting, and the driver's license stationary and not moving that it will be a tough go.

I would think that the retail industry would have some sort of setup with a camera that is literally inches from the driver's license if that is something that is needed.

Thank you very much for this. I really appreciate the help and information. Disappointing, but it is what it is. I guess I either need to put a camera under the countertop with a plexiglass cutout or just chalk up the money for an ID scanner.

 

[sebastiantombs]

From your nickname I think I know what business you're in. Is this a requirement by VA or the Feds with the new regulations? Just curious as a vaper.

 

[houseofvape]

Not a requirement, but we have quite a few shoplifters and it would be nice to have some way to identify them after they steal our product. It’s pretty frustrating to only have a face and no identifying information to give to the police.

 

[Holbs]

Wouldn't a 5442 12-32mm varifocal do the trick? You could ask incoming customers to place there ID on a business card holder or something which angles the ID card directly at a specified camera (5442 32mm varifocal or Andy's above mention camera).
I have not tested things out but I imagine the challenge is getting the ID card at the correct angle to the camera and then holding it still for a couple seconds. As long as you can see the picture ID and possibly the actual ID number (who cares of weight or eye color etc).
But then... does this make you libel for digitally storing personal data?

 

[houseofvape]

Wouldn't a 5442 12-32mm varifocal do the trick? You could ask incoming customers to place there ID on a business card holder or something which angles the ID card directly at a specified camera (5442 32mm varifocal or Andy's above mention camera).
I have not tested things out but I imagine the challenge is getting the ID card at the correct angle to the camera and then holding it still for a couple seconds. As long as you can see the picture ID and possibly the actual ID number (who cares of weight or eye color etc).
But then... does this make you libel for digitally storing personal data?

I guess it’s worth getting and trying the 12-32mm varifocal to see if it works.

I don’t think I would be doing anything illegal, since ID scanners record all of this information as well.

 

[Holbs]

I guess it’s worth getting and trying the 12-32mm varifocal to see if it works.

I don’t think I would be doing anything illegal, since ID scanners record all of this information as well.

in today's world of collecting personal data... especially driver's license or such... since actually recording & stored... might want to investigate the legalities Sounds kinda like the HEPA (?) of medical recording keeping, since sensitive info.
I mean...if you recorded my official govt ID and someone easily hacked your system to steal it all... lawsuit and a win.

 

[houseofvape]

in today's world of collecting personal data... especially driver's license or such... since actually recording & stored... might want to investigate the legalities Sounds kinda like the HEPA (?) of medical recording keeping, since sensitive info.
I mean...if you recorded my official data and someone easily hacked your system to steal it all... lawsuit and a win.

I will do some more research, but I wouldn’t actually be storing the data in a database anywhere (as is the case with the ID scanners). The hackers would have to go through all of the recorded footage and find each ID card and record the information themselves. Seems a bit unlikely.

 

[Holbs]

I will do some more research, but I wouldn’t actually be storing the data in a database anywhere (as is the case with the ID scanners). The hackers would have to go through all of the recorded footage and find each ID card and record the information themselves. Seems a bit unlikely.

I agree with you. However, businesses need to do their due diligence on such matters to cover your butt. I'm sure it will turn out to be nothing. But I would be curious what a lawyer would say. Really getting into constitution stuff on youtube lately (auditors...some good, some bad). Though you say no database, just the fact that you have a purposed recording of a drivers liscense ID may make you libel.
I take care of a large grocery store chain in Cali / Nevada. For the 25+ years, their IT rooms were always left unsecured (unlocked or door open). This is the room where they retain coupon computers, customer club cards, .... bascially, info on customers. Something happened and now they key card lock all IT room doors. An employee told me someone just simply walked into one of their IT rooms under the guise of a vendor or contractor and snagged that info to sell it to the internet. The company got sued. It was enough for corportate to make sure never happened again. Hence, the lockdown of all IT rooms.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Simple solution is keep the recording device, Blue Iris or an NVR, off any network that connects to the internet, period, end of story. Use a thumb drive only if you need to move data off of it.