Do you have ant experience setting the cameras with the NVR to record and send alerts reliably? Many alerts from trees, grass, bushes etc.?
NVR
- Thread starter Teeling611
- Start date
Do you have ant experience setting the cameras with the NVR to record and send alerts reliably? Many alerts from trees, grass, bushes etc.?
bigredfish
Known around here
When using IVS/AI with a target filter for human and/or vehicle its very rare that I get a false alert.
As far as notifications, i use email alerts which work great and are in my experience quite fast. Your email system will determine how fast.. In order to get direct phone alerts you have to use P2P via Dahua. I hear different stories as to how reliable Dahua push notifications are
This may be an area BI excels at, sending alert notifications...
One usually finds that at first you want all sorts of notifications, as time goes on, you work to trim them back to just the important ones
As far as notifications, i use email alerts which work great and are in my experience quite fast. Your email system will determine how fast.. In order to get direct phone alerts you have to use P2P via Dahua. I hear different stories as to how reliable Dahua push notifications are
This may be an area BI excels at, sending alert notifications...
One usually finds that at first you want all sorts of notifications, as time goes on, you work to trim them back to just the important ones
I am NOT fighting tooth and nail to support NVRs. I'm refuting, based on my own experience, the blanket statements that NVRs are effectively useless junk or toys (my summary, not quoting anybody). I try to stick to first-hand objective information and let the consumer of the information make his own decision, not tell him what is right or wrong. Just because one thing might run rings around another for one person doesn't mean it's the best choice for somebody else. Here's an attempt at an example. I often see the first recommended step for installing BI as doing a clean windows install. Believe it or not, that's an insurmountable task for some people who want to put together a camera system.
Don’t worry about a pissing contest. I not impressed with either argument. I only want to know about a good NVR. I‘d appreciate everyone putting their differences aside and sticking to my question. How about we forget about BI for the moment and stick to my original inquire about an NVR. I really appreciate everyone’s input but please no more BI just NVR experience!
bigredfish
Known around here
From a price/value/performance standpoint the 5000 series is a workhorse.
Pro Series
I'll be the first to admit BI has more bells and whistles. But a good NVR like the 5000 series will take care of 90%+ of users.
Like anything, there are low end NVR's (and computers) but if you choose a good higher end version of either you're ,more likely to be happy
Pro Series
I'll be the first to admit BI has more bells and whistles. But a good NVR like the 5000 series will take care of 90%+ of users.
Like anything, there are low end NVR's (and computers) but if you choose a good higher end version of either you're ,more likely to be happy
I'll make a few comments but am not the best source because I prioritize detecting animal activity over reducing false triggers, not the common use profile. A result is that when the wind is blowing I get a large number of false IVS triggers that I have to weed through. If I stuck to detection on paved areas or used human/vehicle filters, I believe the false positive count would be very low. I record 24x7 with events also recorded. I'll add some complaints here, reluctantly because they can be cited as BI superiority. The NVR has a pre-record buffer, so when you click to play back an event, you'll see the few seconds leading up to it. When recording 24x7, the pre-record buffer doesn't work and you sometimes have to manually back up on the timeline to see what happened. In the past I had the NVR send email snapshots for selected IVS triggers. This works but has the same problem I just noted, in that what caused the trigger is sometimes gone from the snapshot. Now that I've found a good way to use smartPss remotely, I quit using the email snapshots and just occasionally scan the timelines when away from home. I have no info to offer about smartphone alerts. Here's an example of a smartPss screen and timeline. The orange indicators are IVS triggers, which can be played by clicking on the timeline, or the event list on the right edge of the screen. If anybody were to think using one of the other viewing interfaces is better, they would have to post that info. I have a couple of driveway sensors interfaced to the NVR, and those triggers also show up on the timeline. The NVR has a few built in digital inputs and outputs, and this is one of several things that keeps me from being serious about BI. BI has digital I/O capability with either a ~$200 hardware module, or a less expensive roll-your-own solution. Seriously, I think that once you're into details like how well the alerts work you can study it to death, but won't have the best answer for you short of trying it both ways, yourself.
trapper
Getting comfortable
- Feb 11, 2017
- 269
- 271
Here is my situation. NVR recently crashed and was on the fence about BI before the crash. Decided to try the BI demo for the free 15 day trial. I down loaded BI, set up basic settings per instructions, videos act ect, added 1 test camera struggled with set up on alerts, timely review and reviewing files in new and stored. I became very frustrated do to the learning curve of BI. While moving forward one challenge at a time BI desk top icon disappeared from my screen and I had to down load it again and start all over. Set up was easier the second time but still struggled with review and alerts. I know BI was not the problem , it was me and a lack of knowledge of BI. I do feel a little defeated as I can usually work through set up issues. Anyway my new NVR from Andy arrived yesterday and everything is back to normal. Dahua 5216 16p 4ks2e. I will eventually go to BI just have to get a better handle on the set up before I make the switch.
I will qualify that my experience with NVRs was before AI became mainstream, so false triggers was the norm.
I got so many false triggers that I simply turned off the alerts, as did many NVR users. @DanDenver explained it well previously in this post.
When I went to BI, the granular level to be able to set up motion detection for each particular field of view was way better than any NVR I had and knocked out almost all the false triggers.
Now between the camera AI and the AI with BI, my system only triggers for what I want it to.
But based on my experiences with the AI cameras, I know that the NVR experience in terms of eliminating false triggers has to have drastically improved.
But one area where I think BI does a better job is how it displays the alerts/timeline, and I believe it is still the same as when I last ran SmartPSS and DMSS.
As we can see from @tigerwillow1 image above, it gives a green timeline with lines at various times to show when it triggered. Over to the right is a graphic/text representation of each trigger, but no image of the trigger.
So when I wanted to find or look at something, I needed to click each one until I found what I was looking for.
Wanna know when UPS came by in an NVR....well just start clicking on the timeline triggers till you see the UPS truck. May take awhile depending on the amount of traffic that goes by.
With BI, it gives alert thumbnails, so I can quickly scroll and find UPS way quicker than I ever could with an NVR playback timeline.
Or if you want to be notified when UPS, or FEDEX, or USPS comes by, with BI AI, you can set up an alert just for those vehicles. Good luck doing that with an NVR.
But to me, the thumbnails are invaluable. I can quickly scroll it at night and look for any activity instead of having to click each one and be like "oh that is John coming home" If I recognize the vehicle or person in the image, no need to investigate further.
I got so many false triggers that I simply turned off the alerts, as did many NVR users. @DanDenver explained it well previously in this post.
When I went to BI, the granular level to be able to set up motion detection for each particular field of view was way better than any NVR I had and knocked out almost all the false triggers.
Now between the camera AI and the AI with BI, my system only triggers for what I want it to.
But based on my experiences with the AI cameras, I know that the NVR experience in terms of eliminating false triggers has to have drastically improved.
But one area where I think BI does a better job is how it displays the alerts/timeline, and I believe it is still the same as when I last ran SmartPSS and DMSS.
As we can see from @tigerwillow1 image above, it gives a green timeline with lines at various times to show when it triggered. Over to the right is a graphic/text representation of each trigger, but no image of the trigger.
So when I wanted to find or look at something, I needed to click each one until I found what I was looking for.
Wanna know when UPS came by in an NVR....well just start clicking on the timeline triggers till you see the UPS truck. May take awhile depending on the amount of traffic that goes by.
With BI, it gives alert thumbnails, so I can quickly scroll and find UPS way quicker than I ever could with an NVR playback timeline.
Or if you want to be notified when UPS, or FEDEX, or USPS comes by, with BI AI, you can set up an alert just for those vehicles. Good luck doing that with an NVR.
But to me, the thumbnails are invaluable. I can quickly scroll it at night and look for any activity instead of having to click each one and be like "oh that is John coming home" If I recognize the vehicle or person in the image, no need to investigate further.
Keep in mind that us BI users responded in this thread because you specifically asked about BI in your original post...
The BI users didn't hijack your thread since you specifically asked "Can an NVR accomplish this task? For that matter can Bi? From what I’ve read it appears so."
You are now being given information on VMS systems. A BI/computer combo used only for that purpose is essentially an NVR and that combo is a good NVR...
Now it is up to you to decide if the AI of the camera/NVR alone, along with the playback and ability to review triggers on a timeline is sufficient for your needs.
For many people it is. Just keep in mind that you can always demo BI and feed your NVR into BI to try it.
It sounds like your mind was already made up before you posted, so just go with NVR because for basic functionality and the AI of the cameras, you will be fine....
bigredfish
Known around here
That is a good feature. Is that a 3rd party add-on?
I think you can do similar with the high end AI NVRs but Im not certain. I know for instance you can see and keep a similar image based database using Video Metadata in some of the higher end cameras.
That is part of the normal console, but it is available to view as well in UI3, so unless you count UI3 as a 3rd party add-on LOL.
It started as an add-on but has been incorporated as part of BI since 2018.
(UI3 is the user interface to view BI from a web browser. Most find it better than the BI app)
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bigredfish
Known around here
Yep, you can collect and search using metadata in the higher end WizMind NVR's
Here's a screencap from the 6 series PTZ that has similar functionality as the the AI/Meta database in the WizMind NVRs
.
| Perimeter Protection | |
| Performance | 12 channel, 10 IVS rules for each channel |
| Object classification | Human/Vehicle secondary recognition for tripwire and intrusion |
| AI Search | Search by target classification (Human, Vehicle) |
| Face Recognition | |
| Performance | Max 16 face pictures/sec processing (modeling and comparing) |
| 4 channel video stream face recognition/16 channel picture stream face recognition (with FD camera) | |
| Stranger Mode | Detect strangers' faces (not in device's face database).Similarity threshold can be set manually. |
| AI Search | Up to 8 target face images search at same time, similarity threshold can be set for each target face image. |
| Database Management | Up to 20 face databases with 200,000 face images in total. Name, gender, birthday, nationality, address, ID information can be added to each face picture. |
| Database Application | Each database can be applied to video channels independently. |
| Trigger Events | Buzzer, Voice Prompts, Email, Snapshot, Recording, Alarm Out, PTZ Activation, etc. |
| Metadata | |
| Face | Gender, age, glasses, beard, mouth mask, expression. |
| Vehicle | Plate No., type, color, vehicle type, logo, plate color, ornament, calling, seatbelt, region. |
| Human Body | Top, top color, bottom, bottom color, hat, bag, gender, age, umbrella. |
| Non-motor Vehicle | Type, color, number of passengers, helmet. |
| AI Search | Support search target video by metadata. |
Here's a screencap from the 6 series PTZ that has similar functionality as the the AI/Meta database in the WizMind NVRs
.
I had the same experience, yet I suspect that the BI learning curve isn't much or any steeper than with the NVR. It's so much harder to learn something new when you have to un-learn something else first.
I guess it all depends on how much time you want to put into it, I use both but I find the NVR's are very reliable set up proper for business applications, most places just want 24/7 coverage and not a lot whistles and bells. Most of my customers are not tech savvy so in my case the NVR is a great fit. Some have been running for almost 9 years with little maintenance. I do like BI for personal use because of the amount of features it has.
What made you decide to go the BI route?
Computer hard drive
Is it difficult to install a computer hard drive on a desktop such as a Dell or HP. I don’t own a computer and have been looking at refurbished for a BI install. Many of the reasonably priced units I’ve found come with only a small SSD, no hard drive or a smaller drive than necessary for...
What made you decide to go the BI route?
Computer hard drive
Is it difficult to install a computer hard drive on a desktop such as a Dell or HP. I don’t own a computer and have been looking at refurbished for a BI install. Many of the reasonably priced units I’ve found come with only a small SSD, no hard drive or a smaller drive than necessary for...ipcamtalk.com
Several reasons! First cost and the second I’ll own a computer and that will be interesting. I did more research and there’s much more input about BI than NVR’s. NVR’s, good ones are quite expensive and even these don’t get great ratings equipment wise. As long as the computer functions correctly I only have to worry about the inner workings of BI. Everyone’s input helped greatly in making my decision also. Time will tell all. Cameras are my next big decision and I have a budget of $150 and less for each of these. More likely in the less than $100 range.
I must need to learn to write more clearly. The 5216-4ks2 that I use is under $300, and I thought I gave it a great rating. I certainly meant to.