PIR sensor to trigger NVR

Discussion in 'NVR's, DVR's & Computers' started by cutterman, Aug 28, 2017.

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  1. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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    I am looking for reliable notification of movement in my driveway. Too many false alarms using motion and VCA detection with spiders, shadows, etc.

    Would like to use some wireless PIR sensors that can trigger my NVR alarm inputs. Need 200 ft range outdoor suitable. Spent a lot of time searching online and could not find any good options. Any recommendations?

    TIA
     
  2. bababouy

    bababouy Getting comfortable

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    You are going to have a hard time going 200ft with a pir without spending a bunch of money. I would recomend several short range PIRs. We use Optex lx-402 PIRs quite a bit because of their reliability and their price. They are about $70. They are rated at 40ft straight out and a 120 degree angle, but we have tested them to about 70ft at night.
     
  3. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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  4. bababouy

    bababouy Getting comfortable

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    Nice product, but the description says its a motion detector. A PIR uses a different type of technology.
     
  5. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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  6. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Pulling my weight

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    I believe almost all devices called motion detectors use PIR technology. Some of the higher end ones also add some sort of wireless technology to reduce false alarms. What I learned the hard way was: Motion detectors are unreliable, and wireless is unreliable.

    Motion detector issues:
    (1) Too many false positives from deer, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, etc.
    (2) Cars and people that are close to ambient temperature can slide right through without detection.
    My solution: A magnetic driveway sensor. It's not perfect, sometimes getting a false positive from a large or fast-moving vehicle on the nearby road. And a high aluminum content or very slow vehicle can slip through it. Animals and people never set it off. Despite its flaws, the false positive and missed detection rate is vastly better than a PIR motion detector.

    Wireless issues:
    Maximum range "xxx-feet". Maybe if you're in the open desert. I first tried a ~150 foot span, well within the rated maximum of the transmitter I was using. The failure rate was almost 100%. I then mounted the transmitter about 20' from the house and ran a wire from the sensor to the transmitter. Reliability rate went up to maybe 60%. Final solution: The wireless transmitter is in the house, about 20' from the receiver, now running at 100% reliability. I have the trigger hooked to an NVR alarm input to trigger recording on a few of the cameras.
     
  7. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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    I ended up mounting it about 60ft from base station on a tree along my driveway. One miss so far when I came down the driveway pretty fast on my motorcycle. A couple of false positives I think from a family of turkeys running around. I am pleased with it so far, recognizing that it is not going to be 100% accurate. I would rather have a few false positives then misses.
     
  8. bababouy

    bababouy Getting comfortable

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    1. I misunderstood your idea of range from your original post. I thought that you needed the detector to pick up movement within 200ft of the device. 2. I didn't read the entire description of this product, I only read down far enough where it talked about trees and cars would diminish the range. This product is a household or residential product. You may want to look into Optex's wireless PIRs that use Inovonics transmitters and recievers. The range from receiver and transmitter is 2000 ft and can be expanded using a repeater. They are quite reliable and can be adjusted to not detect small animals. Also, when installing these devices, make sure they are installed where a subject or vehicle would be moving perpendicular to the device and not towards or away from the device.
     
  9. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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    Thanks for the tips.
     
  10. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Pulling my weight

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    Dang, those Optex specs look good and may temp me again into trying a wireless system. During most of my adult life I've tried various wireless alarm and video systems and have ended up wiring every dang one of them. The example I gave 4 posts up was my latest attempt. The transmitter I ended up moving to 20' from the receiver is from the "voice alert" line, rated at 1000' maximum range. The optex system has pretty good reviews on Amazon, but the system I wrote the example about has even better reviews. Most give high praise, then there are a few that say things like "only picks up 40 feet away", "installed 200 feet away and it never worked". It would be great if there was finally a reliable wireless system with decent range. It could be too late for me with all the bad experiences I've had.
     
  11. bababouy

    bababouy Getting comfortable

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    It depends on where you mount the receiver and what the construction of the building is made of. If you are putting the receiver in a metal building, you have to install it away from the walls of the building to get optimum range. We often times mount the receiver in a sealed box out in the yard and run a cable into the building and to the dvr. Also, the repeater picks up the signal and intensifies it. We purchased the field test kit from inovonics for $500 just for setting these up. They are expensive but they work.
     
  12. Al*_*

    Al*_* Young grasshopper

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    Curious about the follow up. How did it work out for you @cutterman

    Reading good reviews about the Optex lx-402 i am interested using these to reduce false camera motion detection.
    How are these pir's installed? Is it possible to directly connect them to the nvr from which they are powered?

    Thanks.
     
  13. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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    The Guardline product met my needs and works well. I tweaked the mounting location and get rare false alerts. Excellent battery life
     
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  14. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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  15. rufunky

    rufunky Getting the hang of it

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    I've never used a PIR sensor connected to an NVR. Im curious, what do you need connected on the NVR alarm end to communicate with the wireless PIR sensor?
     
  16. Bigboboz

    Bigboboz Young grasshopper

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    ^^^I'm also interested in understanding how this works!!!^^^
     
  17. Al*_*

    Al*_* Young grasshopper

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    I have a couple dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE and although these camera's have tripwire IVS / motion detection I think from reading, hardwired pir's like the Optex lx-402 would help in better results (avoid false alarm).

    I also use home automation (HA) system Domoticz and would like to tie these into.

    As I was looking for pointers on this forum, I found this thread where these Optex lx-402 where mentioned by @bababouy

    Maybe it would've been easier to post my question in nayr's 'unbelievable' home automation thread
    but before asking about things whichmight be explained before (and screaming n00b here) I try to search and try not unnecessary bother people answering same questions again and again.

    I've read and watch ayoutube clip where they powered a motion pir over a battery. Since I want to hook up the sensor onto Domoticz with a fibaro universal sensormy tought was to get power over the nvr and at motion the nvr would send a snapshot from the camera's. With the fibaro universal sensor using a battery would not last long (about one month?)

    Maybe the best solution would be to use a Rasperry pi3 and, since I have a dahua nvr5216-16P-4ks2, hook it up to a poe port from the nvr to get it to work with the camera streams... I'm not sure. Hope somebody can give some pointers. In the meanwhile reading and learning from the heaps of informative posts here. Thanks!
     
  18. bababouy

    bababouy Getting comfortable

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    To use a PIR with an NVR, you need to run a 4 conductor wire to the PIR. Two wires need to be connected to a 12v power supply and the other two wires are connected to the nvr. One of those two wires will go to the ground on the NVR and the other will go into #1 alarm input on the back of the NVR. Some NVRs don't come with alarm inputs. Also, some that do, also come with alarm inputs, which are numbered similarly on the back of the NVR.
     
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  19. Bigboboz

    Bigboboz Young grasshopper

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    Ok, I've got some of those but no idea how I'd get a cable run from where I'd put the PIR to the NVR! I pre planned ethernet cables for the cameras when I did a reno at the front but not for further cables...

    Can alarm signals be sent over the network? I've got cbus home automation which has a PIR on it at the front door...
     
  20. bababouy

    bababouy Getting comfortable

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    Optex sells a wireless transmitter EN1210 | OPTEX which requires a receiver on the recorder end... EN4216MR | OPTEX This may be an expensive solution for just one device.
     
  21. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    the camera only users 2 pairs of the 4 in an Ethernet cable...
     
  22. Bigboboz

    Bigboboz Young grasshopper

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    Really? I thought ethernet used all 4. At least gigabit which the cameras aren't but they are plugged into a gigabit switch.

    Interesting option but I guess it needs to bypass the switch? It's a nice to have but sounds too hard given my setup, going to put it in the too hard basket
     
  23. alastairstevenson

    alastairstevenson Known around here

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    Search eBay for "rj45 splitter". You'd need one at each end. The cameras are 10/100Mbps so only use 2 pairs of wires, as @fenderman stated.
     
  24. cutterman

    cutterman Young grasshopper

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    For those interested in my project, The Guardline PIR sensor has 12V and dry outputs. I ran a Cat 5 cable(since I have so much of this) and connected 2 conductors to the dry output and the other ends to the alarm input block on my NVR. When a car comes down the driveway the PIR receiver sounds a tone and closes the connection of the output wires. The NVR is set up for the alarm input to trigger 2 cameras. I get an email with 3 images each from the 2 cameras.
     
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