POE Camera ground

JayDog007

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Good evening everyone! Sorry I am new to this forum and I promise I have read hours and hours of thread regarding my next question with no luck before I decided to ask. So my question is about grounding. I am going to run about 200 feet of cat 6 cable (Direct Burial) this is the amazon link to int....... Amazon.com. I do not think it has the aluminum shielding in it but could be wrong. I will run it from my POE Switch which will be plugged into my house. From the back of the switch, the cable with drop down about three feet and leave the house. Once outside the house I will run it under the bottom of the vinyl siding about 40 feet before I pass my electrical pole to my house. From there it will go underground WITH NO CONDUIT, and run to the end of my driveway and come up a 6 foot 6x6 post and that is where my POE Camera will be mounted. I needed to know if I will have any issues with attaching the poe cable to my house ground right by the light pole and then driving another grounding rod by the 6x6 post 200 feet away and grounding the POE cable before it goes into the camera. I am just trying to keep all the stuff hooked to both ends of the cable safe just incase. I will not be connecting the two grounds to each other with any copper wire or anything. They will just be independent of each other due to the length apart they will be. I bought these on amazon to use if I needed to ground on both ends Amazon.com. If it would be a problem having the two grounds then which one should I use if any to HELP save my equipment. 1 2 3 go...... Thanks!!!
 
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tigerwillow1

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Could you clarify what you mean by "attaching the poe cable to my house ground "? Do you mean grounding the surge protector? I'm going to refrain from commenting on the independent ground rods because I expect there are others with actual experience. I have multiple cameras on several hundred foot buried runs and have chosen to take the risk of going unprotected. My area is not lightning free, but not anywhere near being a high lightning area.
 

JayDog007

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Could you clarify what you mean by "attaching the poe cable to my house ground "? Do you mean grounding the surge protector? I'm going to refrain from commenting on the independent ground rods because I expect there are others with actual experience. I have multiple cameras on several hundred foot buried runs and have chosen to take the risk of going unprotected. My area is not lightning free, but not anywhere near being a high lightning area.
I am talking about using the above amazon poe surge protector and attaching its ground to my house ground that is by my utility pole right outside my house where the wire will come out. It is an outside rated poe surge protector that has its own ground coming off of it. I wanted to make sure that the electro static energy from lightning would not run one way or the other and if it did it would have ground on both sides of the line that is buried outside. I have heard people talk about "GROUND LOOP" and signal interference so I wasn't sure if this applied to my situation or not.
 

JayDog007

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Thank you for the thread attachment. After reading that it seems I might be more confused lol. I just really need to know if the cable is under ground and I get any electrical charge from lightning what can I do to help. That's why I needed to know if I should ground the cable both ends of the outside run to keep any electrical charge from go left into my house or right into the camera...or if I just have one ground on one end will it automatically go to the grounding rod and not into the device? A lot of the treads are talking about not putting grounding rods on both ends in the case of the cable going from one structure to another where BOTH have power and there own ground but in my case its running out of the house, into the dirt, and up a pole into a camera.
 

SpacemanSpiff

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I've seen the comment in several similar threads: you can never fully protect from surges/strikes. I look at which end of the cable is most expensive. Recently ran some Ethernet to a shed for a single camera (someday maybe 2-3). The other end in the house is what I deemed the more expensive end of the cable. I put something similar to the LAN Network Thunder Lightning Surge Protection Suppressor/Arrester you mentioned adjacent to the entry point to the house and connected it to it's own rod.

Replacing my shed equipment will hurt much le$$ than my network equipment in the house.

Full disclaimer: I'm not an electrician.
 

JayDog007

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So do y'all think I will be ok just running the cat6 outside my house, connecting the cable through the POE surge protector and using the grounding wire off the surge protector to attach to my house main ground (copper rod by light pole) via a 16 or 14 gauge grounding wire. From there the cat6 will be burried and run down 200 feet to my camera on the 6x6. I feel like if I have it connected to the house ground then any small charge should run to the grounding rod by the house and leave the system...hopefully saving my camera and my inside equipment. I will attach the other POE surge protector I bought to the poe cable right before it connects to the camera and just not add a ground to that end? This stuff is a little different than the standard electrical I guess!
 

sebastiantombs

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Theoretically, all grounds should be connected to a common point. A second ground, as an example at your 6x6 post, can(and probably will) be at a different resistance. If those points are linked it can cause all sorts of problems especially under surge conditions.
 

sebastiantombs

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what about the Radio transmitter solution?
The Ubiquiti Loco Nano products.
I'm running 2 IP cams on the 2.4 GHZ stations. works just like a cat 5 cable. but via radio.
That would require AC power out at that 6x6, but would be the ideal way to isolate that camera electrically and eliminate any surge problems. Plus no trenching at all and underground rated CAT wouldn't be needed at all. Just a couple of short pieces of UV rated CAT at the 6x6 end and an enclosure for the power supply.
 

Teken

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GROUNDING BASICS 101:

The following information relates to a single detached home but many of the basic principles still apply to others with - caveats. :thumb:

- Single Point Grounding: All grounding should be connected to the homes grounding system. Whether it be from the Earth ground bar, Ufer ground, Service Entrance, Service Panel, Internal Wiring, etc. Connecting to the homes Earth grounding system will reduce the possibilities of a voltage potential (difference). It's this voltage difference that often times causes large (voltage rise) to be seen from two end points.

There are exceptions to single point grounding which is discussed below.

- Ground Wire: The ground cable should be properly sized (AWG / Gauge) to the distance / length and the ampacity it expects to shunt to ground the fault ampacity of the incoming voltage . In the ideal world the ground wire would be as short as possible with little bends or arc in the cable. Copper wire is the only material to be used and must be sheathed to protect the wiring.

- Bonding: The ground wire should be connected (bonded) to the component device / ground point with the specified hardware per the application that is present. If device (A) comes with a ring terminal and a star washer that is how the end device will be terminated. If the ground rod is bonded (terminated) with a lug the same will be used to connect the same. Applying dielectric grease to both termination points is a must and will insure long term conductivity and reduce corrosion due to moisture.

- Grounding Points: Every appliance / device will have or incorporate different types of grounding based on its application, UL / cUL rating, industry, etc. As such the following are such ground points in the wild: Earth Ground, Chassis ground, Electrical ground, Common ground, Safety ground, Digital / Analog ground, Floating ground, etc.

- Network Application: As it relates to your current use case it should be made clear grounding is determined by the environment and applicable codes present in your location - read, understand, and follow them. Regardless, the cable you selected isn't shielded cable and thus does not offer all of the protection such cables provide. More specifically its not shielded and thus RFI / EMI / EMF can penetrate the cable.

Because the cable is not shielded it does not incorporate one of the most important aspects of such cable - drain wire. This is essentially the earth wire that connects both end points to the single point ground to your homes electrical system.

Shielded cable will negate induced voltage (EMF) say from a lightning strike over head. In large part because its shielded and because the drain wire dissipates the rest into the grounding system if - present.

Keep in mind just because you use shielded cable doesn't mean the rest of the infrastructure doesn't need to be properly grounded! :banghead: This means there is a external ground service bar present that's connected to your homes electrical earth ground. This ground service bar will allow you to connect / disconnected other devices in the server cabinet to this single point ground.

Ground Flow Connection:


Earth Ground Rod -> Service Entrance (Meter) -> Service Panel (Breaker Panel) -> Ground Service Bar -> Server Cabinet / Rack -> Patch Panel -> Components (Switch, Router, UPS) etc.

Isolated Grounding: There are instances where you want to ground the end device but not connect it to the homes grounding system.

Why??

Isolation . . .

A perfect example is where there is a PtP wireless system deployed on the property. In the vast majority of times these wireless systems are deployed because the distance is great and its not practical or even possible to run a ground wire from two points. Regardless, the target device still needs to be properly grounded as such even when a device is installed on a metal pole the same must have a ground rod present.

This insures any fault over voltage can find the path to the least resistance to earth ground . . .

As noted up above this device should use the appropriate grounding hardware provided by the vendor. Cable size (AWG / Gauge / Diameter) comes down to the distance covered / spanned and the expected fault voltage to be carried. You can never go wrong with using larger diameter wire - ever. The only constraints is if the hardware will allow much larger conductors to fit inside a housing vs costs vs availability of the same.

Outdoor & UV rate ground wire must be used to reduce the affects of the elements and mother nature.

The IP camera has a chassis / frame ground this is what should be connected to the grounding rod. In a typical installation the grounding would look like this:

Grounding Rod -> Pole -> IP Camera Frame / Chassis -> SPD (Surge Protective Device) -> Shielded Cable if present.
 

Smilingreen

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You will want all grounds to be a single point of connectivity, otherwise you get into a ground loop issue, where you have different resistances to ground, which could introduce dangerous voltages into to your ground, not to mention make devices have strange issues.
 

tigerwillow1

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Is there a ground loop issue with surge protectors? The only time they should be conducting anything to ground is during a lightning strike.
 

Smilingreen

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You will want all grounds to be a single point of connectivity, otherwise you get into a ground loop issue, where you have different resistances to ground, which could introduce dangerous voltages into to your ground, not to mention make devices have strange issues.
The picture of the the cut view of the cable is mis-leading. It states in the description it is solid guage wire, yet the cut view shows stranded conductors. The cut view also uses the word "double layer shields", but the cut view doesn't show any foil or mesh overall shields or a shield drain wire. It is also CCA -Copper Clad Aluminum. Stick with solid gauge copper. The picture shows it as CAT6a, but the description also calls it CAT5e. The connectors on the end are not shown as shielded. I would look for a different vendor who's description of the product are not all over the map. With their current description, you could get anything.Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 4.24.41 PM.png
 

CCTVCam

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Don't know if they have branches in your country or ship there, but I got a Cable from Cable Monkey.com that Alastair Stevenson also has. It's very light weight, but has good specs, is solid copper and he reports it performs as expected. It's also UK manufacturered. That's one option.

You other option, is search the forum for threads on cables. I'm sure the US guys have discussed these in a thread many times and there are links / options in there to good suppliers stateside. The problem with Amazon, and believe me I like Amazon as my account there shows (!), is you don't know what you're getting when you get off well known brands. Sometimes the goods can be briliiant and other times total rubbish. My advice is research before buying both yourself and by asking others. It's better to look a noob on a forum by asking than to buy and regret later.
 

Flintstone61

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The problem with pre-terminated cabling is you can't see what your getting.
I purchased from this company. I bought cat5e ( which all you need) and you can see the bare copper and the shielding.
If your going to go thru the effort to pull 1, pull 2. In case you smoke 1 run with lightning?
If you don't have Cable terminating tools, maybe somebody you know can help you out.


 
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