POE switches (outdoor) to reduce cable runs

[Teken]

Teken,

I finally got some time to open it up. Photo attached.

The Tripp-Lite surge suppressor is plugged into the GFI outlet. The black box in the back is a compact lithium UPS. The hub plugs into that.

I ordered the harsh hub. If I'm understanding your advice, I would add a bare copper ground wire to the lug and connect it to the ground inside the box of the GFI outlet. Is that correct?

Thanks again for your help on this.

You have a couple ways to do it if you have different goals.

Quick & Dirty: You can do as you suggested and run a ground wire into the GFCI outlet.

Fast & Easy: Make a plug with a single 12-14 AWG stranded (green / green & yellow) cable. The ground to the switch is simply connected to the new plug which connects directly to the ground prong and than inserted into the GFCI outlet.

Long Term: Install a ground bar so anything can be easily connected to a ground. The primary ground is connected to the GFCI using either method. Per code the ground would be hardwired and not removable as with the ground plug solution and doesn’t take up an outlet.

Do Better: Anything that is metal especially the box must be grounded to the homes single point Earth ground. If a piece of equipment has a ground lug / screw this must be grounded to insure chassis & equipment grounding.

Wire: Any wire that is looped becomes a giant induction coil.

Think Magnet . . .

I know you worked with how things came such as the SPD etc. They give you a huge amount of AC wire to reach an outlet. But it’s imperative that all wiring be as short as possible inside the metal box. I know in reality it’s a lot of extra work and cost to shorten the power cables but doing so increases space, reduces the impact of RFI / EMI etc.

Just something to consider if possible.

There is a huge service loop of Ethernet cable which on the surface shows great planning and long term maintenance should it be required

Given it’s not shielded cable and not grounded this service loop is just a giant antenna and magnet waiting for a collect call from Zeus / Thor.

As stated earlier it’s important to add in an external heat sink to anything that you believe is susceptible to heat. Adding a temperature controlled PWM fan will promote air flow and help in reduced temperatures within the sealed box.

Appreciate you taking the time to share the internal photos. Let us know what direction you take and how everything turns out in the short / long term. Everyone wants to see a positive outcome which you surely deserve given the loss in equipment.

Lastly, absolutely agree with TonyR as it relates to using dielectric grease on any exposed wiring / screws / bolts with respect to grounding.

 

[Heavyopp]

Jumping in with a question - Looped wire?

Every wire I pull to a camera I pull an extra 10 feet. This is in my attic. I loop the extra wire, bang a staple into a rafter, and attach the loop of wire to the staple with a Velcro wire tie. I thought this was common practice.

From what I read above I am creating a potential hazard. “Huge induction coil” Really? I’m assuming the hazard is a potential lightning strike.

what do you do with the extra wire? Is an extra 10ft not a good idea?

 

[Teken]

Jumping in with a question - Looped wire?

Every wire I pull to a camera I pull an extra 10 feet. This is in my attic. I loop the extra wire, bang a staple into a rafter, and attach the loop of wire to the staple with a Velcro wire tie. I thought this was common practice.

From what I read above I am creating a potential hazard. “Huge induction coil” Really? I’m assuming the hazard is a potential lightning strike.

what do you do with the extra wire? Is an extra 10ft not a good idea?

What you’ve done is indeed industry best practices. As this insures you have enough service wire to mount or move the camera to its final destination.

It allows you / anyone repair a bad connection etc.

Having said this, this is why shielded cable was created to reduce the impact of RFI / EMI on the cable.

Following Industry best practices / codes ensures a predictable outcome of safety, durability, and performance. We don’t run high voltage AC wire in the same conduit / junction box as low voltage DC wiring.

We don’t run AC wiring in parallel with low voltage DC wiring without proper spacing / barrier.

We don’t run any cable that isn’t so rated for plenum, in wall, ground.

We don’t install cable that isn’t so rated for ampacity for the distance required to meet the 80% load and voltage drop.

We don’t run multiple cameras on a single Ethernet line - ever.

We always run DC power wire with Ethernet cable to insure future proofing, flexibility, and fail over. We always run extra Ethernet pairs in hard to reach places because it just makes sense.

We always run and leave a pull string for in place where conduit is used.

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As to your specific question if your area is prone to lightning. Shielded cable should have been used from the onset and properly grounded at the network side. If your area only sees random lightning events and haven’t seen damage from the same.

Just live life and move on . . . There are millions of homes / businesses that have the exact conditions you have and they are fine.

It’s going to be bad luck, it’s your time, to shit just happens!

Regardless, this information is provided solely so others who may be interested in doing the same will know (what to do) to reduce the impacts of lightning and RFI / EMI when radio / communication / power towers are present.

 

[naturecam]

Since you addressed Teken, I'll let him answer.

Just wanted to insure you use some dielectric grease on all those Ethernet connections I see in the cabinet as I mentioned in post #5 above. Heck, I even use it on electrical screw terminals and AC plug-in cables.

Thanks for the reminder on that. I would have definitely forgotten. I've never used it before but will research it.

 

[naturecam]

What you’ve done is indeed industry best practices. As this insures you have enough service wire to mount or move the camera to its final destination.

It allows you / anyone repair a bad connection etc.

Having said this, this is why shielded cable was created to reduce the impact of RFI / EMI on the cable.

Following Industry best practices / codes ensures a predictable outcome of safety, durability, and performance. We don’t run high voltage AC wire in the same conduit / junction box as low voltage DC wiring.

We don’t run AC wiring in parallel with low voltage DC wiring without proper spacing / barrier.

We don’t run any cable that isn’t so rated for plenum, in wall, ground.

We don’t install cable that isn’t so rated for ampacity for the distance required to meet the 80% load and voltage drop.

We don’t run multiple cameras on a single Ethernet line - ever.

We always run DC power wire with Ethernet cable to insure future proofing, flexibility, and fail over. We always run extra Ethernet pairs in hard to reach places because it just makes sense.

We always run and leave a pull string for in place where conduit is used.

===========
===========

As to your specific question if your area is prone to lightning. Shielded cable should have been used from the onset and properly grounded at the network side. If your area only sees random lightning events and haven’t seen damage from the same.

Just live life and move on . . . There are millions of homes / businesses that have the exact conditions you have and they are fine.

It’s going to be bad luck, it’s your time, to shit just happens!

Regardless, this information is provided solely so others who may be interested in doing the same will know (what to do) to reduce the impacts of lightning and RFI / EMI when radio / communication / power towers are present.

Thanks again for the great info. Some of it I thought of and some I didn't. I can replace the cable with shielded easily enough. I do have the AC running in a separate conduit, about a foot apart from the network cable.

One question regarding you statement - We don’t run multiple cameras on a single Ethernet line - ever. What do you do when a camera is beyond 300' from the NVR? That's the whole purpose of using the hub for me.

 

[TonyR]

What do you do when a camera is beyond 300' from the NVR? That's the whole purpose of using the hub for me.

Just some clarification to the term "hub" you have used several times in this thread. Network hubs broadcast the data to all connected devices, while "switches" identify the media access control (MAC) address in the data packet header to transmit the data only to the device that requested it. In other words, switches are a lot smarter and faster than hubs. Personally I have not seen an actual hub in use in probably 15 years. And for some time now all POE devices with multiple network connections that are sold to power POE devices are POE switches, not hubs.

Regarding cameras beyond 300', the practical limit for Ethernet data is 328' but the real question I would assume is being able to also power a POE camera adequately over that distance. One would have to take into consideration the gauge of the CAT conductor and the current drawn by the camera which determines whether or not the voltage drop at that distance is acceptable to operate the camera properly and dependably. There are inline repeaters/boosters sold to assist with that effort but I have not used any that I could recommend.

 

[Teken]

Thanks again for the great info. Some of it I thought of and some I didn't. I can replace the cable with shielded easily enough. I do have the AC running in a separate conduit, about a foot apart from the network cable.

One question regarding you statement - We don’t run multiple cameras on a single Ethernet line - ever. What do you do when a camera is beyond 300' from the NVR? That's the whole purpose of using the hub for me.

That statement pertains to using a single POE (line feed) to power more than one camera. In your case the cable from your home provides data and the switch you have provides POE to the end devices.

The power is supplied by the 120 VAC outlet in that box to the POE Switch.

Now, do people (DIY / Joe Public) use a single cable to power multiple devices?!?

Yes, all the time . . .

Is it recommended and industry best practice - No!

At the end of the day people & businesses make compromises as it relates to money spent vs expended resources to achieve an outcome.

People by their very nature like quick & easy. Anyone who has been around long enough eventually realizes doing it right the first time no matter the cost.

Over the long run ensures a lifetime of performance, reliability, and value.