Politics without principle

[Q™]

The Seven Social Sins are:

Wealth without work.
Pleasure without conscience.
Knowledge without character.
Commerce without morality.
Science without humanity.
Worship without sacrifice.
Politics without principle.

― Frederick Lewis Donaldson

 

[Q™]

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[bigredfish]

Something we can wholeheartedly agree upon Q

 

[Q™]

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[bigredfish]

ok so Two things

 

[SyconsciousAu]

 

[fenderman]

You think you are free, but the silly politicians had the last laugh...We have those same beach pics here too....unfortunately it does not represent those who died before the police got there and all they had to defend themselves was a toothbrush....its easy to yell gun control from behind your well manicured lawns and white picket fences....

 

[fenderman]

BTW, here is a great article by John Lott, destroying the fake Australian stats cited by the anti-gun lobby.
John Lott's Website: Some notes on claims about Australia's crime rates

 

[SyconsciousAu]

He makes some good points. Despite the strict controls on possession of firearms in Australia, we have more firearms in Australia than before Port Arthur. Despite some ranting to the contrary, we are not a not a disarmed nation. I have a firearm. My friends have firearms. We just have gun control.

unfortunately it does not represent those who died before the police got there and all they had to defend themselves was a toothbrush

If that's the case why do Americans get murdered at four times the rate of defenceless Australian's?

In the United States, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2014: 4.9620

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

In Australia, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is

2015: 1.1651

Guns in Australia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Also

Australia Hasn’t Had A Mass Shooting Since 1996


There have been 307 mass shootings in the US so far in 2017

 

[Q™]

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[fenderman]

He makes some good points. Despite the strict controls on possession of firearms in Australia, we have more firearms in Australia than before Port Arthur. Despite some ranting to the contrary, we are not a not a disarmed nation. I have a firearm. My friends have firearms. We just have gun control.



If that's the case why do Americans get murdered at four times the rate of defenceless Australian's?

Because the overall crime rate in Australia is lower...



Also

Australia Hasn’t Had A Mass Shooting Since 1996


There have been 307 mass shootings in the US so far in 2017

because the overall violent crime rate in Australia is much lower...you need to realize that austrailia has a low gun murder rate in general..even before the ban...we are talking 300-400 deaths per year...that is a joke...that is a six month total in chicago...
with respect to the mass shootings, they make up a statistically insignificant amount of gun deaths...
and its like you didnt even read the article....
Most pinheadedly, especially for a graduate of the Harvard Medical School, Rosenthal says: "Before (the gun ban), Australia had averaged one mass shooting a year. (Since then,) there have been no mass killings."
Mass murder is a rare enough crime that any statistician will tell you discerning trends is impossible. In this country, the FBI doesn't even track mass murder as a specific crime category. . . .
Totally unbeknownst to Elisabeth Rosenthal, Australian academics have already examined the mass murder rate by firearm by comparing Australia to a control country: New Zealand. (Do they teach "control groups" at Harvard?)
New Zealand is strikingly similar to Australia. Both are isolated island nations, demographically and socioeconomically similar. Their mass murder rate before Australia's gun ban was nearly identical: From 1980 to 1996, Australia's mass murder rate was 0.0042 incidents per 100,000 people and New Zealand's was 0.0050 incidents per 100,000 people.
The principal difference is that, post-1997, New Zealand remained armed to the teeth -- including with guns that were suddenly banned in Australia.
While it's true that Australia has had no more mass shootings since its gun ban, neither has New Zealand, despite continuing to be massively armed. . . .
keep drinking the kool aid.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

Our Police round up emus,

And sharks are the least of our worries.

 

[SyconsciousAu]

neither has New Zealand, despite continuing to be massively armed. . . .
keep drinking the kool aid.

It sounds like Zew Zealand is some massively armed, gun control free nirvana doesn't it? The reality is that New Zealand enacted gun control before Australia, in 1990, and have tightened it up since.

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: New Zealand | Law Library of Congress

Too many Americans seem to believe that gun control = no guns. Australians have lots of guns, and gun control, Kiwi's have lots of guns, and gun control, Canadians have lots of guns, and gun control.

It's also worth checking out the bias in your sources, Samara Mcphedran is actually the chairperson of the Women in Shooting and Hunting (WISH) coalition here in Australia, not an independent academic

 

[Mike A.]

Numbers of guns is irrelevant. That's not what drives violent crime/gun crime. Less/more guns per capita and/or gun control makes little to no difference. Look at homicide rates in Mexico or Russia or various other places that are always conveniently left out of the cherry-picked comparisons. The primary factors that drive homicide and violent crimes, gun or otherwise, all over the world are the same and mostly related to criminal/drug/other similar activities, demographics (primarily numbers of young males in the population), inter-group conflict among gangs/criminal groups/tribes, population density, policing, and other social factors (education levels, inequity, unemployment, etc.). Doesn't matter where you go you'll see the same effect guns or not. Move all of what's present as far as those factors go from Chicago or Baltimore or our other urban areas (where the vast majority of gun homicides happen) to Sydney and you'll likely see the same result.

We have lots of gun control here as well btw. The problem is that the people responsible for the vast bulk of gun crime pay absolutely no attention to it.

 

[Kawboy12R]

The only way to prevent gun deaths is to remove the guns from everybody, criminals and all. Not possible. After that, education of gun owners and the general public. Then, (but possibly most importantly) remove the stresses from the society that makes them want to shoot each other for whatever reason. Much of that comes from drugs and/or the desperate mental state that makes people tempted to lose themselves in drugs.

Stressed, broke, pissed off, and/or otherwise hopeless? How do you get relief? People start looking for options and unfortunately many people take the easy way out. It takes a desperate person to pull the trigger on another. Remove the desperation and guns can go back to mostly being used for food and recreation. Simple, right?

 

[marku2]

I cried after that clown in Tasmania went on a rampage
My beloved bennelli semi auto shot gun I had to hand back after all the money I saved
Well paint ball ain’t banned in Australia

 

[SyconsciousAu]

We have lots of gun control here as well btw.

Didn't you just have a guy with bump stocks and 100 round magazines lay 5.56 into a concert at a little over 600 rounds a minute, and everything he bought was legal to buy, and own, without a licence of any kind, and still is?

Remove the desperation and guns can go back to mostly being used for food and recreation. Simple, right?

But the problem is there is no desperation when a child finds a firearm and shoots himself or a mate with it. There is no desperation when a father shoots his son, mistaking him for an intruder, or a child shoots his mother in wall mart.

I cried after that clown in Tasmania went on a rampage
My beloved bennelli semi auto shot gun I had to hand back after all the money I saved
Well paint ball ain’t banned in Australia

He was the straw that broke the camels back. Hoddle, Strathfield, Central Coast, Surry hills, Milperra, they all happened before that.

 

[fenderman]

Didn't you just have a guy with bump stocks and 100 round magazines lay 5.56 into a concert at a little over 600 rounds a minute, and everything he bought was legal to buy, and own, without a licence of any kind, and still is?




But the problem is there is no desperation when a child finds a firearm and shoots himself or a mate with it. There is no desperation when a father shoots his son, mistaking him for an intruder, or a child shoots his mother in wall mart.




He was the straw that broke the camels back. Hoddle, Strathfield, Central Coast, Surry hills, Milperra, they all happened before that.

Yup..big deal..it happens....guy also killed 8 with a home depot truck...timothy mcvreigh killed 168 with a truck and some fertilizer.... many many more lives saved with legal firearms than accidental shootings, add to that rapes, burglaries and robberies prevented..
...38,000 people die a year in automobile accidents, yet we dont put speed governors on cars to 55mph. We still have backyard swimming pools yet children drown, boo hoo..
What part of the second amendment and the fundamental right of folks to protect themselves dont you get. I could care less if you have an accident with your gun..I want the right to own one to protect myself and my family if i so choose.
We could save thousands of lives by repealing the 4th amendment. We wont.
Finally, there is no drop in deaths as a result of your aussie gun control, so why in the world would I want to implement it here even if i could...the notion that gun control saves lives is a LIE. See the links posted earlier....you can list all the sob stories you want, it doesnt change facts.