Problems with video quality on new HDW5442T-ZE

[Pips]

I have had several HDW5231R-ZE working well for years (via BlueIris), quality good. I recently added several new HDW5442T-ZE but the quality is very poor. Looks like low bandwidth video, you know when the video gets badly throttled and looks awful. I am using the same video settings on the old and new cams (tried same resolutions too) but nothing changes. I see this in the direct web interface of the camera (rules out BI). However the older cameras work very well in the same conditions so I am confused as it doesnt suggest a network or cable issue as I have tried various combinations and its always the new cams with issues. I am currently testing 4 new cams with different network cables and switch combinations, always poor quality.

Below is the output from BI and I can see the bandwidth of the new cams is always much lower than the old ones suggesting this should be investigated as why. The old is 500kB/s which looks good, and the new ones around 100kB/s despite currently configured in higher res.



I am sure I have just missed a setting or doing something stupid. Any troubleshooting advice is welcome.

I have tried various different video settings on the new cams but nothing seems to improve the quality. Here is the current settings as an example (same as the older cams except res)


Versions of new cams below



Thanks for any advice.

 

[wittaj]

Most of us have found that the 5442 series works best at CBR and 8192 bitrate and H264. Generally the more MP, the higher the bitrate needs to be. And most of us found that VBR on the 5442 series tends to be pixelated mess. As always YMMV, but I suspect this will work in your case.

I would also consider dropping the substream bitrate down.

Try those and if still bad, then try upping the bitrate more.

 

[biggen]

I'd at least run the VBR at 8192. That is what I do on my 5442s. Drop to H.264 if that doesn't work and see if that helps.

 

[TVille]

Add another vote for CBR.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Definitely CBR at 8192 if you want good video.

 

[JL-F1]

Are you sure the web interface isn't showing you the substream? That's what mine defaults to. Also if you set up BI the 'modern' way you may also be seeing the substream

 

[looney2ns]

Be sure that your BI computer is connected to the same switch that your cameras are. Non of the camera traffic should travel through the router.

 

[redfive]

Mine ones seem ok on h265, with AI codec (so, CBR), 4096 Kbps, 25 FPS, I-Frame 50

 

[Pips]

Thanks all, switched to CBR and it's loads better. VBR just seemed horrible whatever settings I used. Unlike the old ones which are good with VBR.

Appreciate all the quick replies, much happier now.

 

[sebastiantombs]

@redfive You do realize that if you're using Blue Iris the iframe and frame rates need to match to get the most out of motion detection?

 

[redfive]

Since I don't use BI, I'd say ,,, no
Anyway, the image is fine even if my FPS and I-Frame do match

 

[sebastiantombs]

It won't effect the image, but as I plainly stated if you're using BI it does effect motion detection. Why did I see an iframe of 30? Must be really tired.

 

[redfive]

Sorry, I was just reporting my settings on 5xxx cameras, regarding the OP's poor video quality ....

 

[Zimberto]

In my experience the processor in this camera can't handle all the video options that are selectable. For one thing I think it struggles with H265 which has better compression than H264 but needs more processing.

Overall I believe this camera has good optics but the processor and firmware leave a lot to be desired. The question is, do most users really care? I personally do since I use these cameras standalone but for folks with NVRs it's probably not so much of an issue.

 

[wittaj]

At the end of the day, these are electronic components and "spec" versus reality are two different things, especially if you try to push it to the limit like a car or computer.

Keep in mind that these type of cameras, although are spec'd and capable of these various parameters, real world testing by many of us shows if you try to run these units at higher FPS and higher bitrates than needed that you will max out the CPU in the unit and then it bugs out just long enough that you miss something or video is choppy. My car is rated for 6,000RPM redline, but I am not gonna run it in 3rd gear on the highway at 6,000RPM...same with these types of units - gotta keep them under rated capacity. Some may do better than others, but trying to use the rated "spec" of every option available is usually not going to work well, either with a car or a camera or NVR.

Look at all the threads where people came here with a jitter in the video or IVS missing motion or the SD card doesn't overwrite and they were running 30FPS and when people tell them to drop the FPS and they dropped the FPS to 15FPS the camera became stable and they could actual freeze frame the image to get a clean capture. The goal of these cameras are to capture a perp, not capture smooth motion. When we see the news, are they showing the video or a freeze frame screen shot? Nobody cares if it isn't butter smooth...getting the features to make an ID is the important factor. As always, YMMV...

Further, these types of cameras are not GoPro or Hollywood type cameras that offer slow-mo capabilities and other features. They "offer" 30FPS and 60FPS to appease the general public that thinks that is what they need, but you will not find many of us here running more than 15 FPS; and movies are shot at 24 FPS, so anything above that is a waste of storage space for what these cameras are used for. If 24 FPS works for the big screen, I think 15 FPS is more than enough for phones and tablets and most monitors LOL. Many of my cameras are running at 12FPS.

In fact, many times if a CPU is maxing out, it will adhere to the FPS but then slow the shutter down to try to not max the CPU, which then produces a smooth blurry image..that is the video my neighbor gets who insists on running 60FPS. He gets smooth walking people but you can't freeze frame it cause every frame is a blur, meanwhile my 12FPS gets the clean freeze frame. Shutter speed is more important the FPS. We both run the same shutter speed by the way, but his camera CPU is maxing out and something gotta give when you push it that hard.

 

[Zimberto]

At the end of the day, these are electronic components and "spec" versus reality are two different things, especially if you try to push it to the limit like a car or computer.

Keep in mind that these type of cameras, although are spec'd and capable of these various parameters, real world testing by many of us shows if you try to run these units at higher FPS and higher bitrates than needed that you will max out the CPU in the unit and then it bugs out just long enough that you miss something or video is choppy. My car is rated for 6,000RPM redline, but I am not gonna run it in 3rd gear on the highway at 6,000RPM...same with these types of units - gotta keep them under rated capacity. Some may do better than others, but trying to use the rated "spec" of every option available is usually not going to work well, either with a car or a camera or NVR.

I agree with most of what you say but I don't think your car analogy is perfect. No one would expect to buy a car that is advertised to redline at 6000 rpm but in reality can't easily handle 3000 rpm. If there's a camera setting that doesn't ever work well then users should be prevented from selecting it. If, for example, you start to get choppy video or failed storage overwrites it could be because of a number of factors and you are left to investigate by a process of elimination. In the end if you find that it's because the camera can't reliably deliver H265 at 30 fps then you have to wonder why that is even an option. This is a product testing responsibility.

 

[wittaj]

I didn't say my analogy is perfect, I am stating a fact that stuff we buy is always marketed as more capable than it is, especially if you are using all of the features. Does your car get its stated MPG in every situation - NO...

But then using your analogy of "No one would expect to buy a car that is advertised to redline at 6000 rpm but in reality can't easily handle 3000 rpm" .... Change 6000rpm to 30FPS and 3000rpm to 15 FPS and then you are agreeing with my statement that a camera being advertised at 30FPS may not work properly with every feature being utilized, but it can easily handle half that FPS at 15FPS....

Can a little 4 cylinder base model Ford go up an interstate incline of 4% with the air conditioning at full blast at the speed limit - NO. I remember growing up we would have to turn off the AC going up big hills LOL.

Do you really believe every marketing claim of every product you see on Amazon?

Just like a computer - it is rated for this and that, but if you are running the CPU at 100%, something is going to give. Same with these little cameras with a lot less computing power.

So a few of my cams have a system status screen, and they call it a CPU, so that is why I am calling it a CPU, but this shows this camera running at 8192 bitrate, H264, CBR, and 12 FPS is hitting the camera processor at 47% and jumps to 70% with motion. If I up the camera to 30 FPS, the usage is in the high 90% range, but then with motion, it maxes out and would get unstable.

Or if I keep it at 12 FPS and use the camera motion detection, the CPU in the camera goes to 60% idle.

This would be nice if all cams had this so we could see how our settings impact the performance of the camera. I think running these cams close to capacity is probably harder to overcome than a computer spike at 100% CPU.

At the end of the day, if the consumer wants cameras that can do 30FPS, they will not look at any cameras that do not have that rated spec.

And in a few scenarios maybe you can squeak 30FPS out of these cameras - maybe without using IVS or motion detection and just watching a simple feed. But maybe when two users log in, it can't handle it for example. The more features you use, the less likely it will work as one expects.

And if the complaints get bad enough, we have seen firmware updates to popular models that do just that - cut FPS or some other feature...