PTZ or 180 degree wide angle?

[TobiasF]

Hello,

I need some help to select the best camera type for my application.

I want to observe the backyard of my apartment of about 10 m width and 9 m depth marked in red. The yellow marked area in front of the wall I want to be able to see. In blue I marked the area where people can enter.
In a perfect set-up I would install a camera at both ends of the building wall. Unfortunately, this is not so easy to realize for me to get cables there. But I easily can one in the centre (marked with red cross) in a hight up to 2,80 m.

A PTZ can reach the yellow area, but due to the "standard lens angle" it will have blind sports for detection.
A 180 degree camera will capture the complete area where someone can enter but it will have a blind spot near to the building wall with windows and doors.

Any suggestions?

 

[bigredfish]

You need more than one camera

 

[TobiasF]

Is there any free software where I can simulate the detection zones for different focal lengths and camera positions?
I only found paid software.

 

[wittaj]

System Designer

Generated by create next app

system-designer.vercel.app

One camera cannot be the be all/see all. Each one is selected for a primary focus.

 

[TobiasF]

I found IP Video System Design Tool and with the trial version I could get a good impression about my situation.

Now it is more clear to me:

• One camera does not help at all. I need tow
• Even having two cameras at the center position is too far away from the configuration I am willing to compromise with.

Too bad. Now I have to skip my temporarily solution and work on to get wires to the corners.


As long I can think about some fine tuning of my set-up: To go with around 90° or around 70° lense?

 

[lewic]

You may try one of the PTZ's that have dual lens. Here is the one I have in mind.This one will have a 180 degree camera on top to be use as a general overview camera. The PTZ could be used to get a more detailed shot. What it could also do is have the top 180 degree camera trigger the PTZ to turn in that direction and follow the object. The PTZ itself has auto tracking so following cars/people are no problem.

 

[Tech Lucas]

so you can only install one camera? How about this one. around 160USD



4MP 5x Smart Dual Light WizSense Network PTZ Camera
1/2.8" 4Megapixel CMOS.
5x optical zoom.
Max. 25/30fps@4MP.
IR distance up to 50m.
Warm light illumination distance up to 30 m.
Built-in Mic and Speaker for Two-way Talk.
Perimeter protection.
SMD 3.0.
12 VDC/PoE power supply.
IP66.

 

[Tech Lucas]

or this small one, around 130USD

4MP 4x Starlight WizSense Network PTZ Camera
1/2.8" CMOS.
Powerful 4x optical zoom.
Max.25/30fps@4M/3M.
Max 100°/s pan speed.
Supports face detection.
Support PoE.
IP66, IK10.
SMD 3.0.
6000V lightning-proof.

 

[wittaj]

or this small one, around 130USD
View attachment 207074
4MP 4x Starlight WizSense Network PTZ Camera
1/2.8" CMOS.
Powerful 4x optical zoom.
Max.25/30fps@4M/3M.
Max 100°/s pan speed.
Supports face detection.
Support PoE.
IP66, IK10.
SMD 3.0.
6000V lightning-proof.
View attachment 207075

Really? A 4MP on 1/2.8" sensor DOME outside? A camera without infrared or white light? In addition to a Dome outside not recommended, it will be blind at night.

 

[TonyR]

or this small one, around 130USD
View attachment 207074
4MP 4x Starlight WizSense Network PTZ Camera
1/2.8" CMOS.
Powerful 4x optical zoom.
Max.25/30fps@4M/3M.
Max 100°/s pan speed.
Supports face detection.
Support PoE.
IP66, IK10.
SMD 3.0.
6000V lightning-proof.
View attachment 207075

That's NOT a good camera....I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.

What are you doing?

 

[wittaj]

so you can only install one camera? How about this one. around 160USD

View attachment 207072

4MP 5x Smart Dual Light WizSense Network PTZ Camera
1/2.8" 4Megapixel CMOS.
5x optical zoom.
Max. 25/30fps@4MP.
IR distance up to 50m.
Warm light illumination distance up to 30 m.
Built-in Mic and Speaker for Two-way Talk.
Perimeter protection.
SMD 3.0.
12 VDC/PoE power supply.
IP66.

This still suffers from the camera will be looking one way and a perp comes from the other AND it cannot capture the patio and rear of the backyard at the same time. And it is on a less than ideal MP/sensor ratio.

 

[steve1225]

Why You don't install 180 cam on the building, in place of big red X?
Yes, it have some dead spot (1m half circle) under camera but works very well to sides and front...

 

[TobiasF]

You may try one of the PTZ's that have dual lens. Here is the one I have in mind.This one will have a 180 degree camera on top to be use as a general overview camera. The PTZ could be used to get a more detailed shot. What it could also do is have the top 180 degree camera trigger the PTZ to turn in that direction and follow the object. The PTZ itself has auto tracking so following cars/people are no problem.

Yes, this also sounds like a good idea. This proposal with a combined 180° camera will address the issue with the blind spot of the PTZ.

The proposed device seems to be a little bit over spec: 3 km detection range and 200 m IR range. I only want to cover a 10 m x 10 m area.
I could count the ants on the ground with this device.

Also a little bit outside of the budget. But in principle I like the concept of a PTZ for my application. A massive device, that is blinking, showing to outside that it is active and making motion noise when tracking someone. A dummy doing this already would satisfy 90% of my needs to scare potential intruders.

 

[TobiasF]

so you can only install one camera? How about this one. around 160USD

or this small one, around 130USD

Thank your for help.
I am not looking for a specific device proposal. I am more interested in to get an understanding of pros and cons and to find the best concept for my application.

 

[TobiasF]

Why You don't install 180 cam on the building, in place of big red X?

This is the question I was asking in my initial post.

To summarize the options, that I have on the table:

• 180°
• PTZ
• Combined PTZ + 180°
• two bullet in the center
• two bullet at the corners

 

[steve1225]

This is the question I was asking in my initial post.

To summarize the options, that I have on the table:

• 180°
• PTZ
• Combined PTZ + 180°
• two bullet in the center
• two bullet at the corners

Normally (95% installations) for front or back of the house I use 2x turret (under soffit) overview (usually 3.6mm 90 degree, sometimes 2.8mm 110 degree) cams on each side of house...
plus usually one camera for each side of building...

they look at house (doors, windows) and area in front of that side of house...
they give nice overview image but people at distance (like 10 meters) can be problematic for identification...

If there is some exit (entrance, gate etc) usually I mount third camera with STRONG OPTICAL ZOOM, which covers only entrance/gate to catch huge / very visible in details human / faces / vehicles / plates sharp images..
I sent You in different thread about AI demonstration what camera with telephoto optics directed into street from building can do...

this is best solution most good installers use..

180 degree camera is solution which I use only on very long walls in middle where I have in that place cable..
image from 180 degrees cams are distorted.. also there is no 180degree cams with normal IR light (only white light one which don't see IR).

PTZ is no good solution for small area like 10x10 meters..
max angle on PTZ is only 60 degrees and they have big problems with recording people/objects at distances lower that 2 meters..

You use PTZ if You have big plot / area in acres size...
Or want cover public street with cars at longer distances...

 

[TobiasF]

Normally (95% installations) for front or back of the house I use 2x turret (under soffit) overview (usually 3.6mm 90 degree, sometimes 2.8mm 110 degree) cams on each side of house...
plus usually one camera for each side of building...

Thank you.
This narrows down the choices to a clear direction: two cams with "normal" view angle of about 90°.