PTZ with Long range seperate PIR?

[h_2_o]

OK so I want to put a ptz in my back yard it has a lake and a wooded area. anyway it is less about security and more about watching specific areas wildlife. I have 2 deer bedding down close by, an eagle that loves to sit in a tree and fish and a few other things going on. Anyway I would love to setup a PTZ to capture some of what is going on. I have BI setup at home already but from reading it looks like I'll need to setup pir's to trigger the PTZ to go to presets when something happens. Now here is the big one, I've seen pir's for close up stuff but when i'm talking 150 feet and further away how/what is a good way to detect this? is a pir a good choice or am I thinking about this incorrectly?

thanks

 

[nayr]

they exist, but for those distances its gonna cost yeh..

would be cheaper to do a wide angle fixed camera up high with intrusion detection/line crossing to tell the PTZ that there is activity worth looking for.

 

[h_2_o]

because of the distance out would a wide angle really work or would a couple higher zoom cameras focused on where i want be a better option?

also on a side note I was not aware that one camera could sent an alert to a second camera I searched for it on google and did not come up with much, but my google fu might be off today, any pointers on where to look for that?

also on a separate thought that I just had, are any of the PTZ's good enough to track a bird after it has landed and is taking off? They like to hunt and it would be really cool to track them but I understand that might not be an option.

 

[nayr]

well wide angle for the FOV you need, not nessicarly a wide angle lens.. a 12mm at those distances would still be pretty wide.

it depends on your NVR, my Dahua NVR can command my PTZ's from the detection on another camera.. I believe BluIris is capable of the same thing.

auto tracking on PTZ's sucks ass, if it could track birds it'd also track trees blowing and all sorts of noise.

 

[h_2_o]

is there anything that would auto track that or is it just a pipe dream at this point?

 

[nayr]

pipe dream, even what I seen accomplished with $1200 PTZ's was pretty lackluster.. not the shit from SciFi your hoping for.. Its only adequate for fixed paths like tracking vehicles in a parking lot that you know where they will enter and where they are likely to exit the frame.. and the targets you are hoping to track are the only things ever moving... also took a ton of setup and tuning.

the cheap auto tracking avilable in the junk PTZ's are gimmicks and nothing more.. if they manage to lock onto a target the'll loose it when the wind blows.

physical sensors and other cameras firing off presets is the most reliable way by a long shot.

 

[h_2_o]

I was not hoping for scifi stuff just something a little more than just go to point a,b,c

now here is a possible different way to think of it and I'm not sure nvr's or cams can be setup to do this. The Birds when fishing most of the time attack the same spot, i'm trying to think if there would be a way to detect an exit and if that happens go to the fishing spot they hit and stay there for a certain amount of time before resetting back to a base position.

 

[nayr]

you could just do it manually, these are birds.. they aint going to kill you or steal your shit, so dont you think you've spent enough money already?

 

[pozzello]

you could have the ptz set up to scan the various fixed points of interest in a 'patrol'.
then when it lands on a preset where there is motion detected, it could be made to stay there while activity is still occurring rather than continue patrolling.
I think I saw such settings in me Huisun/Imporx mini-ptz's UI, but haven't played with 'em.
... and you'd probably want more zoom than the 50mm mini-ptz provides.

I do so like the idea of bolting one of those narrow angle IR bullets to a PTZ to augment IR as you pan around...

 

[tangent]

You'll get much higher quality shots with a DSLR and good telephoto lens. I'd put my money there rather than a bunch of security cameras. Cams can be interesting at night, you might see some more reclusive animals.

I've thought about getting my parents a PTZ because they have an eagle and hawk that frequent their yard. The more important use though might be for ALPR / monitoring a residential intersection their house overlooks where there have been several road rage incidents that involved people getting out of their cars and throwing punches. But based on the IPVM calculator it probably isn't worth the trouble. I'd probably have to trigger a max zoom tour of an area if the camera hears a car horn.

I agree with nayr that fixed cameras for motion to direct the ptz would make the most sense. It might require more than one fixed camera. Long range motions are pricey and would be hard to tune. In theory you might be able to rig up some zwave or zigbee motion sensors in a mesh network. A simple tour or patrol setting might work as well as anything.

 

[nayr]

isint what they invented game cameras for? i mean the'll run for ages off batteries strapped into a tree, yeah its not realtime.. but if you could see it in realtime you'd not be asking for auto-tracking nonsence right?

the only security cameras with birds I ever see is nests/roosts, and thats kinda a captive audience worth the trouble of getting realtime video from.

 

[h_2_o]

sorry been a few days of craziness dealing with clients. but to answer a few questions posed here will hopefully clear things up a bit.

"you could just do it manually, these are birds.. they aint going to kill you or steal your shit, so dont you think you've spent enough money already? "

These birds are crafty who knows what they will swipe next.... but in reality just like the past few days I'm not always around and it is fun to see what they are dragging out of the lake when fishing or to see what is going on in the next.


"You'll get much higher quality shots with a DSLR and good telephoto lens. I'd put my money there rather than a bunch of security cameras. Cams can be interesting at night, you might see some more reclusive animals."

you are absolutely 100% correct about this and I have a full frame and hopefully soon large format camera for stills but that still doesn't help if i am not around.

"isint what they invented game cameras for? i mean the'll run for ages off batteries strapped into a tree, yeah its not realtime.. but if you could see it in realtime you'd not be asking for auto-tracking nonsence right?
the only security cameras with birds I ever see is nests/roosts, and thats kinda a captive audience worth the trouble of getting realtime video from."

Yes game cameras work, but lets be honest with those you normally end up with photos that look like they were taken with an old motorola razr flip phone. Plus the fact of placing it in the tree or somewhere that would allow a shot where they normally sit would be a monumental task itself. The deer not so much they like to chill out. No it is not realtime however because of the movement of the critters trailcams IMHO are not what I want.

I am leaning towards having 1 PTZ with several other cams triggering it. any suggestions on reading up having 1 camera alert a second cam as I've not done that yet.

thanks for the help all

 

[nayr]

BluIris should be able to use pretty much any camera as a motion sensor for your PTZ, I've seen others do it.. but i am not a BI user so cant tell you exactly what settings are applicable, but dig about and im sure you'll find it.